Forums - Gaming Discussion - Difficulty vs Accessibility: A responsibility for the developers, not for the players.

@Svenno:

I believe that adding difficulty options does affect the game for other players, though. As someone pointed out, Miyazaki wants the player to enjoy the feeling of overcoming something difficult. There is much less enjoyment to be had when an easier alternative exists. Many people that beat Sekiro would have probably lowered the difficulty if the option presented itself. But because the option wasn't there, those people persisted, and the sense of accomplishment was the pay-off.

Let's say every action RPG is updated to include an option to make the player invulnerable to damage. Your opinion is that it doesn't change the experience as it's an extra option that you don't need to use. But I can attest that it would bother me. The ability to trivialize every situation in a game could be tempting if a difficult or tedious encounter is met. And I don't think I'm the only person who feels this way.

This is one of the reasons why I tend to not enjoy playing games as much on emulator. The ability to save-state or run the game in turbo (10x speed) mode freely is too convenient and I oftentimes find myself using it despite my intention not to. And after finishing a game where I used these tools, it doesn't quite feel as though I truly finished the game.

Overall, I'm of the opinion that games can be played in any way the player wants, but I still wanted to point out that optional crutches do impact the game for some people.



Around the Network
RaptorChrist said:

@Svenno:

I believe that adding difficulty options does affect the game for other players, though. As someone pointed out, Miyazaki wants the player to enjoy the feeling of overcoming something difficult. There is much less enjoyment to be had when an easier alternative exists. Many people that beat Sekiro would have probably lowered the difficulty if the option presented itself. But because the option wasn't there, those people persisted, and the sense of accomplishment was the pay-off.

Let's say every action RPG is updated to include an option to make the player invulnerable to damage. Your opinion is that it doesn't change the experience as it's an extra option that you don't need to use. But I can attest that it would bother me. The ability to trivialize every situation in a game could be tempting if a difficult or tedious encounter is met. And I don't think I'm the only person who feels this way.

This is one of the reasons why I tend to not enjoy playing games as much on emulator. The ability to save-state or run the game in turbo (10x speed) mode freely is too convenient and I oftentimes find myself using it despite my intention not to. And after finishing a game where I used these tools, it doesn't quite feel as though I truly finished the game.

Overall, I'm of the opinion that games can be played in any way the player wants, but I still wanted to point out that optional crutches do impact the game for some people.

The contradiction is strong on this one.



RaptorChrist said:

@Svenno:

I believe that adding difficulty options does affect the game for other players, though. As someone pointed out, Miyazaki wants the player to enjoy the feeling of overcoming something difficult. There is much less enjoyment to be had when an easier alternative exists. Many people that beat Sekiro would have probably lowered the difficulty if the option presented itself. But because the option wasn't there, those people persisted, and the sense of accomplishment was the pay-off.

Let's say every action RPG is updated to include an option to make the player invulnerable to damage. Your opinion is that it doesn't change the experience as it's an extra option that you don't need to use. But I can attest that it would bother me. The ability to trivialize every situation in a game could be tempting if a difficult or tedious encounter is met. And I don't think I'm the only person who feels this way.

This is one of the reasons why I tend to not enjoy playing games as much on emulator. The ability to save-state or run the game in turbo (10x speed) mode freely is too convenient and I oftentimes find myself using it despite my intention not to. And after finishing a game where I used these tools, it doesn't quite feel as though I truly finished the game.

Overall, I'm of the opinion that games can be played in any way the player wants, but I still wanted to point out that optional crutches do impact the game for some people.

I recently played Final Fantasy VIII Remaster and the game comes with an option to make your party full health, constant full ATB bar and constant Limit Break available, so basically a God mode. I never used the option but it didn't bother me that it was available (literally one button push away at any time). I did however use to 3x Speed option pretty much all the time because the combat animations can be reaaaally long and also the way the game is made you can spend a lot of time just drawing magic from an enemy until you have 100 for everyone which can get boring at regular speed.

When I finished the game, I didn't feel like this playthrough was less worthy than the one I did 20 years ago. In fact, I would say I enjoyed it more than my first one because some of the irritants were smoothed away.

Last edited by TruckOSaurus - on 21 February 2020

Signature goes here!

TruckOSaurus said:
RaptorChrist said:

@Svenno:

I believe that adding difficulty options does affect the game for other players, though. As someone pointed out, Miyazaki wants the player to enjoy the feeling of overcoming something difficult. There is much less enjoyment to be had when an easier alternative exists. Many people that beat Sekiro would have probably lowered the difficulty if the option presented itself. But because the option wasn't there, those people persisted, and the sense of accomplishment was the pay-off.

Let's say every action RPG is updated to include an option to make the player invulnerable to damage. Your opinion is that it doesn't change the experience as it's an extra option that you don't need to use. But I can attest that it would bother me. The ability to trivialize every situation in a game could be tempting if a difficult or tedious encounter is met. And I don't think I'm the only person who feels this way.

This is one of the reasons why I tend to not enjoy playing games as much on emulator. The ability to save-state or run the game in turbo (10x speed) mode freely is too convenient and I oftentimes find myself using it despite my intention not to. And after finishing a game where I used these tools, it doesn't quite feel as though I truly finished the game.

Overall, I'm of the opinion that games can be played in any way the player wants, but I still wanted to point out that optional crutches do impact the game for some people.

I recently played Final Fantasy VIII Remaster and the game comes with an option to make your party full health, constant full ATB bar and constant Limit Break available, so basically a God mode. I never used the option but it didn't bother me that it was available (literally one button push away at any time). I did however use to 3x Speed option pretty much all the time because the combat animations can be reaaaally long and also the way the game is made you can spend a lot of time just drawing magic from an enemy until you have 100 for everyone which can get boring at regular speed.

When I finished the game, I didn't feel like this playthrough was less worthy than the one I did 20 years ago. In fact, I would say I enjoyed it more than my first one because some of the irritants were smoothed away.

You enjoyed your recent playthrough of FFVIII more than your first playthrough 20 years ago? I wish I could get that feeling back. FFVIII is probably my all-time favorite FF game, and my memories of playing it as a child on Christmas morning are still very vivid in my mind. Squeenix has been adding in those options in a lot of their recent releases, and I would prefer they weren't there.

I'm inferring from your reply that you were not clear about my post. If you were just replying to tell me about your FFVIII playthrough, then don't worry about the rest. :P

And to be clear (as I don't like the feeling of being misread), I will summarize my post:

My message: Optional crutches do impact the game for some people. (Keyword: "some")

What Svenno had said (and I quote): "... adding options does not change the core game. I don't know why you keep insisting it does... Why would it be less popular for the current players when there are extra choices."

My post was to explain my reasoning for why optional extras do affect certain players. I don't contest that most players would welcome those options, but I do insist that there are some players who are affected by them. In other words, even if 99% of people like the options in the game, Svenno was wrong, as he made a blanket statement insisting that optional extras do not affect the game at all.

This is one of those weird times where I feel as though people are disagreeing with a statement I made that I originally didn't think could be disagreed with.

I liked you better with your Leon avatar. *spits*

(j/k)



This is getting boring. When will you understand that not wanting an easy mode in some games DOESN'T MEAN (be careful, the caps are important) that I refuse that a game developper can add an easy mode in some (other) games. Seriosuly, what's hard to understand?

If a racing game was a perfect simulation, the most realstic one even possible. And the game was a success for being the most accurate simulation possible, and didn't have an "easy mode", then I don't want an easy mode in that game. If GTS has an easy mode, I don't want it to be removed. What's hard to understand?

So please, stop telling me "that game has an easy mode and it works". Great. Some are lazy and millionaires, so everybody should be lazy to become millionaire?



Around the Network

It's just the notion that you find it 'selfish' to request easier options in 'your' games that irks me. Basically the lack of options is there because some people lack self control when it comes to playing games and don't have the back bone not to use crutches when the going gets a little tough. Isn't that 'selfish'? Easily solved though, add trophies for not going below certain difficulty levels or game speed levels. Many games already do that, switch difficulty, lose your chance at whatever trophy you're playing for.

I've already linked an article earlier explaining that as you age, perception of time and reflexes slow down. The souls games and souls likes are in essence rhythm games. In Beat saber you don't start on expert either and for ages rhythm games had the option to slow sections down to practice since at full speed there's simply not much you can do when you fall behind. It's the same in souls games, miss a couple beats, start over. But perhaps you'll be immune to the effects of time or simply won't care about video games anymore when you approach your fifties :)



I just can't stand difficult old games. Like NES and some SNES games. They're just too ancient and I'm growing filthy casual these years.

Can't grasp why so many obsess about and re-buy NES games on newer Nintendo consoles. Weirdos and nuttters and old timers they are. :P



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


SvennoJ said:
It's just the notion that you find it 'selfish' to request easier options in 'your' games that irks me. Basically the lack of options is there because some people lack self control when it comes to playing games and don't have the back bone not to use crutches when the going gets a little tough. Isn't that 'selfish'? Easily solved though, add trophies for not going below certain difficulty levels or game speed levels. Many games already do that, switch difficulty, lose your chance at whatever trophy you're playing for.

I've already linked an article earlier explaining that as you age, perception of time and reflexes slow down. The souls games and souls likes are in essence rhythm games. In Beat saber you don't start on expert either and for ages rhythm games had the option to slow sections down to practice since at full speed there's simply not much you can do when you fall behind. It's the same in souls games, miss a couple beats, start over. But perhaps you'll be immune to the effects of time or simply won't care about video games anymore when you approach your fifties :)

I lack self control to resist the temptation so I demand that they aren't put in the games.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

SvennoJ said:
It's just the notion that you find it 'selfish' to request easier options in 'your' games that irks me. Basically the lack of options is there because some people lack self control when it comes to playing games and don't have the back bone not to use crutches when the going gets a little tough. Isn't that 'selfish'? Easily solved though, add trophies for not going below certain difficulty levels or game speed levels. Many games already do that, switch difficulty, lose your chance at whatever trophy you're playing for.

I've already linked an article earlier explaining that as you age, perception of time and reflexes slow down. The souls games and souls likes are in essence rhythm games. In Beat saber you don't start on expert either and for ages rhythm games had the option to slow sections down to practice since at full speed there's simply not much you can do when you fall behind. It's the same in souls games, miss a couple beats, start over. But perhaps you'll be immune to the effects of time or simply won't care about video games anymore when you approach your fifties :)

Just to pitch in something: wouldn't it also be "selfish" to demand the dev to put in more "features"(since options make it like its something that everyone would like and wouldn't harm the game in any way for others, which is not the case), when it is clearly that they don't want to, whatever the reason may be?

Or rather, since you are getting old and thus don't have the reflexes you claim you once had, you want those features in so that you(and emphasis on that) can enjoy them better, even against the wishes of the creator himself?(which admittedly have more right, and moral grounds, than you and me to do anything they want with their games)Wouldn't you say you are being as "selfish" as us, as you are claiming?



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

DonFerrari said:
SvennoJ said:
It's just the notion that you find it 'selfish' to request easier options in 'your' games that irks me. Basically the lack of options is there because some people lack self control when it comes to playing games and don't have the back bone not to use crutches when the going gets a little tough. Isn't that 'selfish'? Easily solved though, add trophies for not going below certain difficulty levels or game speed levels. Many games already do that, switch difficulty, lose your chance at whatever trophy you're playing for.

I've already linked an article earlier explaining that as you age, perception of time and reflexes slow down. The souls games and souls likes are in essence rhythm games. In Beat saber you don't start on expert either and for ages rhythm games had the option to slow sections down to practice since at full speed there's simply not much you can do when you fall behind. It's the same in souls games, miss a couple beats, start over. But perhaps you'll be immune to the effects of time or simply won't care about video games anymore when you approach your fifties :)

I lack self control to resist the temptation so I demand that they aren't put in the games.

Do you even read? No you don't, you just repeat the same sentence ad nauseam.

SOME GAMES without an easy mode <> ALL GAMES without an easy mode.

What's hard to understand? Do you understand the difference between SOME and ALL? This is beyond me, in 2020 every single folk feels entiled to DEMAND that EVERY SINGLE GAME is made for him.