| yvanjean said:
Your entire world seem to be so deep into the Sony eco system and you probably aren't aware that Microsoft already has enhanced BC and when the Xb2 release it won't be the Xb1 library but the entire Microsoft Xbox library. I guess your argument is that it only matters once it come to a Sony platform?? I heard rumors that E3 2018 Sony is expect to announce that they will finally bring PS1 & PS2 BC to PS4 so maybe one argument is going to gain more weight.
I am aware that Microsoft already has enhanced BC. In fact, I mentioned it more than a week ago. Like I said already, your lack of self-awareness is the reason why you end up frequently self-contradicting yourself. You would not fall into this situation if you have actually kept track of your past comments and the entirety of the conversation.
Did I ever claim that my argument only matters when BC comes to the PS5? This is another strawman fallacy. Not only is your longterm memory is lacking, but your short-term memory is, too. My reference to PS4 BC was used in refutation against a false assertion you made that the only claim I made was that Sony can improve their first party launch lineup.
I also mentioned other points such as that PS4 BC will have its greatest benefits at the beginning of the PS5's lifecycle since (1) it helps give it an instant library, (2) PS4 owners who did not have the time to catch up with the entirety of the PS4's software offerings can still enjoy them with PS5 enhancements, and (3) it can help tide things over as the PS5's library grows from its infancy. You have addressed none of these points.
This is your entire counter-argument PS5 specs and PS4 BC later on in the thread you go on talking about specs are based on AMD's roadmaps. AMD recently had a press conference and their CPU & GPU roadmaps have remained unchanged. Guess what the competition is going to do. Microsoft has already proven ease of development with Xbox one X. They made it so easy that all XB1X enhance are make use of the full hardware power instead of simply getting the PS4 Pro upgrade. I've also provided links. Ease of development is even more important for Microsoft since they are the one that need to focus on better software to compete.
Games running better =/= Games using the full hardware power. If games that work on the XB1X also work on the XB1, then those games are not made with the XB1X in mind. The XB1X has never been the base platform nor will it ever be. It will be left behind just like the PS4, XB1, and PS4 Pro as developers want to implement more advanced features that the Jaguar CPU cannot handle.
Well the only thing you've said so far was it's going to be substantial upgrade .... maybe if you comparing the PS5 to PS4. You've ignore any external factor that might impact PS5 and when I mention anything or any external factor you simply call everything red herrings, Strawman and ad nauseaum fallacies.
I don't simply call your arguments red herrings, strawman, and ad nauseaum fallacies for the sake of it. They are fallacies because (1) you do not address the topic at hand, (2) you try to smack down an argument I never proposed, and (3) you repeat the same talking points without addressing my counterarguments.
PS5 will be a substantial upgrade of all current gen consoles, not just the PS4. I already explained it here, here, and here. The first one that I linked is 5 days old and you still have not addressed the points I made that long ago.
You demand counter argument and facts and the only counter you came up with every time was that it's red herrings.
Because red herring fallacies are arguments that are not on topic. In order to make good arguments, then you must stay on topic in which you haven't. For example, in response to my argument that there will be substantial upgrade over the PS4/XB1/PS4 Pro/XB1X with the PS5, you do not respond by showing the Nintendo Switch spec sheet.
You claim that I said there was no competition and accuse me of revisionist history. How about you look at history yourself or does all facts and historical data fall in the red herrings category?
Because for there to be no competition, there has to be literally no competition. Having weaker competition is not having no competition. Also, you clearly do not understand what a red herring fallacy is because your claim that the PS4 had no competition at launch is a dishonest claim. Red herrings have to do with arguments that are not related to the topic, at hand.
So all of your claim doesn't have the same burden of proof or does your moderator status remove the burden of proof from every thing you've said. Look at the claim that I made and PS4 Pro would like to say HELLO ..... I've provided an article... https://thenextweb.com/gaming/2017/08/22/xbox-one-x-ps4-pro-prove-old-console-cycle-dead/ but I guess that was RED HERRINGS again? You've dealt with entire mid gen refresh by simply not acknowledging it.
You clearly do not understand what proof means. Here is what proof means on the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
"The cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact"
Evidence comes in the form of data or observable events that can be verified by multiple parties. Your link, however, is an editorial. The article links to no studies or surveys. You did not fulfill your burden of proof. And no, my moderator status doesn't grant me a reprieve, but it was you who made this claim, not me:
"PS5 launch seem more like the PS3 launch (where Sony fan were still content with their PS2) there won't be the same level of excitement to make the jump (Ps3 to Ps4) and Sony fan will be hesitant to leave their platform of choice the massively popular PS4."
Now show me a survey or a study that shows that a very large proportion of current PS4 owners are not willing to jump to the PS5. When you do that, then you have adequately fulfilled your burden of proof.
You refuted this point? With what? You claim to have refuted multiple times and all you've provided were bold statement and speculation of your own.
Which SKU is cheaper? The PS4 or the PS4 Pro. Which SKU will the price conscious consumer will be more inclined to purchase? I can't wait to explain to me how me saying that the standard PS4 is cheaper than the PS4 Pro is a bold statement.
Wow you've made the argument Sony could reduce PS4 Pro production to push PS5? I guess burden of proof really doesn't apply to you, I can't even use Sony historical data (that would be red herring right?) that shown that Sony has always had an history of keeping the older version well stocked and kept supporting them long after they release their next gen consoles.
Oh, so you have historical data that proves that Sony has a history of keeping upgraded iterations of consoles stocked long after the release of their next gen consoles? Even though the PS4 Pro is the first time Sony has done something like this? You are quick to accuse me of ignoring the differences between the PS3 to PS4 and PS4 to PS5 transitions and yet, you are willing to throw context out of the window to artificially boost your assertion. Let me ask you, if you are Sony and you want to put the PS5 in the best position to succeed, then wouldn't reducing PS4 Pro be one of those measures? After all, only 20% of the PS4 sales come from the PS4 Pro and 50% of the PS4 Pro purchases were made by people who already owned a PS4.
Did you not just made the argument for me? Your also making the assumption that a power conscious consumers are not also a price conscious consumers provide zero data to show how many PS4 consumers are power conscious consumers. (Burden of proof doesn't apply to you). In your scenario the power conscious consumers would have the choice between PS5 and PS4 Pro but will opt for the PS5. How come the power conscious consumers doesn't have a PS4 Pro???
You really like to throw basic logic out the window, do you? More power means you have to spend more money. That means power conscious consumers are more willing to part with more money than price conscious consumers. This also means that they will have no qualms spending more money on a PS5 than settling for a PS4 Pro. So no, I have not made the argument for you. This is just you being too desperate to find a gotcha moment.
In addition, there is nothing stopping standard PS4 owners from skipping the Pro to upgrade to the PS5. The jump will be pretty big and they can enjoy PS5 enhancements of PS4 games assuming there will be PS4 BC. There's also nothing stopping PS4 Pro owners from upgrading to the PS5. Even though the gap between the PS4 Pro and PS5 is smaller than that between the PS4 and PS5, the upgrade will still be substantial. After all, power conscious consumers are willing to spend money for more power.
Show me where I claim there would be no major improvement from the PS4 Pro to the PS5.
Here: "The actual jump in resolution is 4k to 4k. PS4 Pro did not sell gang buster because there were no major improvement over the PS4. It's going to be the same thing with PS4 Pro to PS5."
The fact that you're asking me to show your claim, in which you're the one responsible for your own words says a whole lot about your willingness to put in the legwork to support your arguments. That is... absolutely nothing.
I stated that Nintendo can make a game on much weaker hardware and have that game be better then anything available on next-gen console and win game of the year.
And yet, you said that the PS4 Pro did not sell gangbusters because it was not a major improvement over the PS4 and that it will be the same thing with the PS4 Pro to PS5. And then, you turn a 180 and point out at the Nintendo Switch to show that power doesn't matter.
Pick one. You can't have both.
I claim that consumer might actually buy the PS4 Pro over PS5 especially compare to PS3 to PS4.
- Price conscious consumers will be more willing to buy a PS4 than a PS4 Pro because the former is cheaper.
- Sony has the ability to reduce PS4 Pro production in order to ramp up PS5 production, which will limit PS4 Pro supply.
- Power conscious consumers will likely opt for the PS5 over the PS4 Pro because unlike price conscious consumers, they are more willing to spend a premium for more power. If they buy the weaker system, then they are not power conscious.
I stated that both the PS4 Pro and PS5 are or going to be 4k consoles.
A reductive statement. I already said that there is more than just native resolution. Other aspects such as framerate, framepacing, VRR, shadow quality, texture resolution, AI, physics simulation, shading, and lighting come into play as well.
I claim that game will get PS4 Pro support long after PS5 release unless Sony waited till 2021 or later to launch the PS5.
So? The PS3 got support long after the PS4 released, but that didn't stop the PS4 from being successful. Let me guess, you're going to go back to the "last generation lasted too long" argument while ignoring the differences between the PS3 to PS4 and PS4 to PS5 transitions that I already mentioned that may give the PS5 some advantages over the PS4 which include:
- Smaller development learning curve due to Sony staying with x86 as opposed to going from CELL to x86
- Sony's 1st party studios having found its rhythm in releasing their games on a consistent basis which may lead to PS5 owners not needing to wait as long for the PS5 1st party exclusives to come in.
- Backwards compatibility with PS4 games giving the PS5 an instant library for PS5 gamers to start off with as the PS5 library grows from its infancy.
- The retention of subscribers to the Playstation ecosystem, making the upgrade from PS4/Pro to PS5 not a matter of "if", but "when" because consumers will not want to throw their investment into the PS ecosystem down the drain.
- It will not be difficult to leap over the Killzone: Shadowfall and Knack launch lineup bar. The first game had a MC in the low 70s and Knack scored in the 50s. A stronger launch lineup may help the PS5 achieve a similar sales performance as the PS4.
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