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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's arrogance needs to stop

DevilRising said:
It's not fuckin' rocket science.

3DS stumbled out of the gate, as you say, because it's launch lineup SUCKED. There were ZERO "must have" titles to help sell the console. The price wasn't even the issue, and the price drop, while it absolutely helped sales, wasn't technically necessary. What really picked up sales, was the release of MK7, and Super Mario 3D Land. When those came out, 3DS finally had some "killer apps".

Wii U is a bit different. It didn't stumble RIGHT out of the gate. In fact it did well within it's launch window, selling close to 3 million units. It even had a rather robust launch lineup, one of the single biggest arrays of launch software in gaming history actually. BUT, one thing it kind of didn't have, was a "MUST HAVE" killer app. Nintendo Land simply wasn't as readily accessible and "for everyone" as Wii Sports had been. Nintendo tried, and they obviously thought NL would be that, but it just wasn't. NSMBU was a great game, and it still to this day has the highest attach rate of any game on the console. But it was hindered by Nintendo releasing it FAR too close to NSMB2 on 3DS. The enthusiasm for the game would have been much higher if Nintendo had release NSMB2 much further away from U than they did.

Wii U's real trouble started in the first half+ of 2013, when they published a grand total of ONE title themselves, Lego City (which is a great game), and third party support during that same period also became sparse. Third party support AT LAUNCH was very strong. But because many of those games didn't sell very well, some of those third parties, namely EA, stopped or lessened their support going forward. System sales suffered because of a lack of software released for much of 2013. THAT, along with poor/lack of advertising, was the main cause of Wii U's troubles. Things picked up late in the year, which reflected in Wii U selling around 1 million consoles in the last few months of 2013.

2014 is going BETTER, with two Nintendo retail releases in the first two months, Wii Fit U and DKCR2. But then there's the gap between March and late May, before MK8 comes out. There is still, unlike last year, a slow trickle of third party retail software releasing in those months, and support is certainly steadier than it was last year. BUT, the simple fact is, if Nintendo had managed to release MK8 on April 30th, instead of May 30th, at least perception wise, that might've made all the difference in the world, as far as there seeming like a major gap.

But, the undeniable fact is, that Mario Kart 8 IS a "must have", system selling type of killer app title, and it's release WILL help Wii U sales. It's not a question of IF it will help, only a question of how much. Will it help some, or a lot? And how will Nintendo follow MK8? Will they manage to have a stronger, steadier release lineup from June-December 2014? One would hope so, especially considering that games like Bayonetta 2, Yarn Yoshi, and even X surely should all be close to done, all of them having been in development for years.

So regardless of whatever blather is being talked about Nintendo's "arrogance", nothing has changed as far as the real issue behind Wii U's struggles. It hasn't had a single, MUST HAVE piece of software to push the system. It just hasn't. It's had many GOOD games. But even Super Mario 3D World, as good as it is, was hurt somewhat by the perception that "oh, it's just another 3D Land game". So it also wasn't the "killer app" Wii U needed. Mario Kart will be, there is no arguing that. It only remains to be seen how MUCH it will help, and if Nintendo can drive the momentum forward going forward.

This. Just This.

Well posted.



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Not while Iwata is in charge buddy. Get used to fail until some good change comes to upper managment.



 

theprof00 said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Idk... You have other companies like Capcom, SE, Sega, and etc that tried adapting and we get crap like FFXIII, FFXIV (original launch), Sonic franchise for the 7th gen, RE franchise for the 7th gen, And every one of them making shit games for mobile... Capcom even went as far to spend 4 billion yen on a mobile division that they got from Monster Hunter sales instead of a new game

Oh and software delays... Come on... You really want them to release unfinished games like EA and others?

So maybe them being arrogant, specially after the latest MK8 and SSB trailers, isn't all that bad but granted it could certainly be improved...

"idk". You're right, you don't know. It's poor reading of the market like this that has hurt the Japanese developers so much. So many people in the industry put the blame on the wrong shoulders. Itadaki, cliffyb, and others did this. Jim Sterling is right. Japanese devs went out of their way to make games more westernized and lost so much audience because of it. It all comes down to really poor analysis of the market, and bad leadership on top of it all.

Releasing games in the dlc way is not a bad idea. It's a very smart idea. It allows developers to save costs until it's shown that the support for the game exists.

Mobile gaming is not bad. In fact, it's very good, and very smart. Mobile is huge already and is only growing. Only an idiot would not prepare. You look at ps4 and how almost every dev is supporting it. They all know how successful it is going to be. If it's only logical to support ps4, how is it bad to support mobile?

Also, just because you use EA as an example, it doesn't give your argument credibility. There are plenty of great companies and games and franchises that use dlc properly. Look at pc expansions. Expansions are basically dlc. So there you have the fallout series, starcraft, warcraft, eve, world of warcraft, elder scrolls, crusader kings, far cry, warhammer 40k, and countless others. DLC is just following the 15 year+ trend that is called expansion.

EDIT: Not trying to be an asshole, but try to put a little more thought into this. Nintendo would do well to work with DLC more....and they are. Fire Emblem is a perfect example of it. Why should gamers have to wait upwards of 5 years for sequels? There is only ONE smash brothers per generation. Would it kill them to update the game? No. They can put out dlc and expand every couple years. They would make money. It would be profitable.

Instead, Nintendo says, "he's some shit. Eat your shit, and STFU". No, Nintendo is definitely cutting their own wrists. They are missing out on tons of profits. GBA on 3ds is already possible. Yet no downloadable games. There was ONE mario party in wii era. ONE. There were like 4 on gamecube, and each one sold really well. It's a failure in the leadership and in their market strategy.

This is indeed, the post of the day. I agree with you prof, DLC is the way to go. While they are at it, Nintendo sohuld charge for online too.



"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

I'd like to point out that expansions differ from DLC in quite a few ways. Most the games listed that have expansions are all very large games and didnt have any need for more to be good and long lasting. DLC is a cheap excuse to pull those extra dollars out of our pockets after charging us full price for a game that didnt come complete in the box. Games should have lots of content to start not 6-8 hours of playtime then piles of either online multiplayer focus, multiplayer DLC or extra mission packs. I personally prefer to have a decent 30+ hour minimum of solo play in my games before it has need for additions with the exception being MMOs or games specifically desgined for online only.



Nintendo's thing is to add something that hasn't really been done before. motion controls, dual screens, 3d, gamepad etc are just recent ones. You can't blame for trying, but they seem to make systems for their own games more than anything.

But personally, I think Nintendo's problem is it's image. It's always been associated with kids (not a problem on it's own). In the 80s and 90s this was fine but failed to keep up after that, while Playstation, Sega and later Xbox appealed more to everyone else. The thing is Nintendo's games have always been good but for some reason they are often dismissed abit as a joke. I don't understand why but also the 3rd party problem it had since the N64 has also been bad. They aren't arrogant but they somehow aren't very liked.

Also, I fail to see how making Nintendo systems more like Xbox and Playstation will make them more popular. That part of gaming is already extremely competitive and also I like the different approaches taken by these companies. It makes Nintendo systems worth owning I think if you play alot of games like me (the differences in games between 3DS and Vita makes them both more than worth it). Xbox don't appeal to me very much because of the fact it is so similar to Playstation in it's approach and games.



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

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Anfebious said:
theprof00 said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Idk... You have other companies like Capcom, SE, Sega, and etc that tried adapting and we get crap like FFXIII, FFXIV (original launch), Sonic franchise for the 7th gen, RE franchise for the 7th gen, And every one of them making shit games for mobile... Capcom even went as far to spend 4 billion yen on a mobile division that they got from Monster Hunter sales instead of a new game

Oh and software delays... Come on... You really want them to release unfinished games like EA and others?

So maybe them being arrogant, specially after the latest MK8 and SSB trailers, isn't all that bad but granted it could certainly be improved...

"idk". You're right, you don't know. It's poor reading of the market like this that has hurt the Japanese developers so much. So many people in the industry put the blame on the wrong shoulders. Itadaki, cliffyb, and others did this. Jim Sterling is right. Japanese devs went out of their way to make games more westernized and lost so much audience because of it. It all comes down to really poor analysis of the market, and bad leadership on top of it all.

Releasing games in the dlc way is not a bad idea. It's a very smart idea. It allows developers to save costs until it's shown that the support for the game exists.

Mobile gaming is not bad. In fact, it's very good, and very smart. Mobile is huge already and is only growing. Only an idiot would not prepare. You look at ps4 and how almost every dev is supporting it. They all know how successful it is going to be. If it's only logical to support ps4, how is it bad to support mobile?

Also, just because you use EA as an example, it doesn't give your argument credibility. There are plenty of great companies and games and franchises that use dlc properly. Look at pc expansions. Expansions are basically dlc. So there you have the fallout series, starcraft, warcraft, eve, world of warcraft, elder scrolls, crusader kings, far cry, warhammer 40k, and countless others. DLC is just following the 15 year+ trend that is called expansion.

EDIT: Not trying to be an asshole, but try to put a little more thought into this. Nintendo would do well to work with DLC more....and they are. Fire Emblem is a perfect example of it. Why should gamers have to wait upwards of 5 years for sequels? There is only ONE smash brothers per generation. Would it kill them to update the game? No. They can put out dlc and expand every couple years. They would make money. It would be profitable.

Instead, Nintendo says, "he's some shit. Eat your shit, and STFU". No, Nintendo is definitely cutting their own wrists. They are missing out on tons of profits. GBA on 3ds is already possible. Yet no downloadable games. There was ONE mario party in wii era. ONE. There were like 4 on gamecube, and each one sold really well. It's a failure in the leadership and in their market strategy.

This is indeed, the post of the day. I agree with you prof, DLC is the way to go. While they are at it, Nintendo sohuld charge for online too.

Are you being serious or sarcastic?



kirby94837 said:
I'd like to point out that expansions differ from DLC in quite a few ways. Most the games listed that have expansions are all very large games and didnt have any need for more to be good and long lasting. DLC is a cheap excuse to pull those extra dollars out of our pockets after charging us full price for a game that didnt come complete in the box. Games should have lots of content to start not 6-8 hours of playtime then piles of either online multiplayer focus, multiplayer DLC or extra mission packs. I personally prefer to have a decent 30+ hour minimum of solo play in my games before it has need for additions with the exception being MMOs or games specifically desgined for online only.


Yep, easy to tell legit expansion quality from BS DLC. We can all name great examples of both.



theprof00 said:
Anfebious said:
theprof00 said:

This is indeed, the post of the day. I agree with you prof, DLC is the way to go. While they are at it, Nintendo sohuld charge for online too.

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

I'm always serious.



"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

kirby94837 said:
I'd like to point out that expansions differ from DLC in quite a few ways. Most the games listed that have expansions are all very large games and didnt have any need for more to be good and long lasting. DLC is a cheap excuse to pull those extra dollars out of our pockets after charging us full price for a game that didnt come complete in the box. Games should have lots of content to start not 6-8 hours of playtime then piles of either online multiplayer focus, multiplayer DLC or extra mission packs. I personally prefer to have a decent 30+ hour minimum of solo play in my games before it has need for additions with the exception being MMOs or games specifically desgined for online only.

You would have an argument if you didn't resort to exaggeration. Unfortunately, the point cannot be made without exaggeration. Your "6-8 hour playtime" crap is long since dead-horse beaten nonsense. It's a meme that started last gen by people speeding through the games as quickly as possible to show how HD gamers were being ripped off....and it's synonymous with the kind of "Wii are the best" Nintendo fanboy trolling that we got so used to last gen. You know how long it takes to beat the metroid games? Generally within 8 hours. Zelda? yep. Mario? yep.

Nintendo's secret to creating length? Create a series of locked doors in between point a and point b, and make the player run back and forth to keep progressing. There's really no difference between the games. Maybe AAA game makers should make you replay the same levels once you get to the end.... It's not like you, or anyone else with these kind of arguments, would notice.





Anfebious said:
theprof00 said:
Anfebious said:
theprof00 said:
 

This is indeed, the post of the day. I agree with you prof, DLC is the way to go. While they are at it, Nintendo sohuld charge for online too.

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

I'm always serious.

But the pay for online thing?
I mean, sure they could...but I would expect something really low.
That being said, it would be smart for them to lock wifi play to a 5$ charge. And what I mean is the wifi play that shares games with a friend.