firebush03 said:
Okie doke. I guess can start. What are the policies of Trump and Harris when it comes to Gaza? (I will avoid Ukraine and NATO for obvious reasons.) Here's what I have percieved: >>Kamala Harris -> Rheotorically, she is far more sympathetic toward the innocent Palestinians than Biden and (especially) Trump. To see this, here are some immediate examples: https://x.com/VP/status/1731404365695528980, https://x.com/VP/status/1719858212134891738, https://x.com/VP/status/1779349618813235542, https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/kamala-harris-says-israel-has-right-to-defend-itself-against-hezbollah-6227644). Observe, however, that admist all this relatively sympathetic speaking, Kamala is very clear in expressing her interest in ensuring that "Israel has the right to defend itself", as can be seen by almost every example I've pulled up (and if you believe i have cherry-picked, which is a fair critique, then I suggest you do your own research). Looking past rheotic (or as far as we can look past this), consider the outcome of Harris' meeting with Netanyahu a few weeks prior. The following statement would be released by the White House concerning this meeting: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/07/25/remarks-by-vice-president-harris-following-meeting-with-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu-of-israel/, https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/07/25/readout-of-vice-president-harriss-meeting-with-prime-minister-netanyahu-of-israel/. You could argue, again, this is all for spectics (i.e., my favorite word: rhetoric); however, this is all we've really got when it comes to Harris' relationship with the Prime Minister of Israel. It's filled with the empty words of "I want a two-state solution" and "We have a solution! Now HAMAS needs to agree.", and continues to insist that Israel does in fact have the "right to defend itself" (...might I ask, defend itself against what? What are the Palestinians even doing? All I can recall is October 7th...but this is beside the point.) In short, seeing that the DNC has pledged their full support in nominating Kamala as the Democratic Presidential Nominee, there should be no question as to what her true stance on Israel will be: To continue the Biden policy of not only remaining complicit in a genocide, not only neglecting the usage of America's leveraging power to stop Israel from its abuse of force against innocent Palestinians, but also sending over "secret" executive military packages worhts hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars (https://truthout.org/articles/report-us-has-secretly-sent-israel-over-100-weapons-shipments-in-last-150-days/) and "finishing the job". >>Donald Trump -> This is pretty cut-and-dry, and I don't think anyone will disagree when I say this: Donald Trump does not care to play this game of rhetoric. He is not afraid to say the quiet part out loud: Finish Them. If you want additional sources, I'm happy to provide. Though knowing this forum, I think y'all probably know Trump = bad. >>Net difference? Both sides seem to support Israel's right to defend itself, just one side is far less explicit about it. But besides rheorhic, what is the true difference? I'm no foreign polciy expert, I can't give you specifics. In any case, the damage has already been done with 2% of the total population of Palestinians having been killed in direct combat. And any difference between the two will *likely* be marginal, as Israel will finish the deed in either case. Maybe y'all could enlighten me on the specific policies of their differences? (Though i have no idea why I would expect a VG forum to have people informed on military strategy lol.) |
First of all, Harris isn't President. She has no power over foreign policy over Israel at the moment, so it isn't really accurate to portray current policy as Kamala's policy. She has made it pretty clear that she is more critical of Israel than Biden and seems more willing to enforce consequences against Israel than Biden. You admit that there is a clear difference between the positions that Harris expresses and the positions Trump expresses. That should be the end of this conversation. The two are objectively not identical.
That said, even Biden is markedly different from Trump. He has been central in the push to get aid into Gaza. Even before this war, when Trump was President, Trump halted humanitarian aid into Gaza. One of the first things Biden did as President was restore that aid. As the war went on, repeatedly, funding was provided for humanitarian aid due to the pressure from Democrats which was resisted by Republicans. These millions of dollars of aid simply would not have come if Trump had his way. Gaza is already struggling under a food crisis. Allowing Trump to gain power would objectively make that worse. Biden also was central to efforts to get this aid into Gaza, taking actions such as Air Dropping aid and negotiating to allow aid to enter through Israel controlled border checkpoints.
As far as actual military support of Israel, I personally would like Biden to go further in resisting Israel's killing of innocent civilians. That said, they have pushed back publicly against some of the actions of Israel and have withheld certain munitions and threatened to withhold additional munitions if a certain red line were to be crossed.
We can also look further into Trump's presidency to see some of the more controversial actions he had taken, which likely wouldn't have happened under Democratic leadership. Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem, both very controversial actions which inflamed tensions. Further, Trump officially recognized the Golan Heights as part of Israel. Golan Heights is disputed territory which is illegally being settled by Israel in violation of international law. One of these settlements was named "Trump Heights" in acknowledgement on Donald Trump.
EDIT: Quick side note in relation to one minor comment you've made: "The damage has already been done". While a lot of damage has been done, there are still a hell of a lot of people suffering in Gaza. This decision has the power to save some of their lives. The damage isn't just in the past, it is also in the future if we don't choose to act. Step one of that action is voting for Harris. Step two is getting out and pressuring her to do what is best for the people of Gaza. Another massive difference between the two is that Harris can be pressured by voices on the left advocating for peace. Trump will probably just send more bombs if the left tries to pressure him.
Sources:
Palestinian aid emerges as sticking point in supplemental talks - Roll Call
Biden signs bill that includes funding for Israel, aid for Gaza - The Washington Post
U.S. restores assistance for Palestinians, to provide $235 million in aid | Reuters
El-Sisi and Biden agree to send aid to Gaza via Karem Abu Salem crossing | Israel-Palestine conflict News | Al Jazeera
Why Biden administration says Israel hasn't crossed a red line on Rafah | AP News
President Donald J. Trump Keeps His Promise To Open U.S. Embassy In Jerusalem, Israel – The White House (archives.gov)
Proclamation on Recognizing the Golan Heights as Part of the State of Israel – The White House (archives.gov)
