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| Ryuu96 said: Don't know if it's useful to compare which is worst. What is happening or has happened in Ukraine, Israel and Gaza is horrific all round. By the end of both wars they'll both likely have causalities in the hundreds of thousands. I wish there could be a cease-fire to evacuate civilians but unfortunately I don't think IDF has any intention of stopping, no matter what anyone says to them. Mainly take issue with the EU comment, if you mean that EU is perpetuating the war in Ukraine by not sending Ukraine what it needs to crush Russia faster and instead trickling out aid then I would agree. If you mean perpetuating it by not doing a peace deal with Russia then that's incorrect. The West tried to warn Russia multiple times, had Macron practically on his hands and knees begging Putin not to do it. The difference is that The West is aiding Israel in invading another region (Gaza) and Israel goes on indiscriminate bombings. While with Ukraine, the West is aiding Ukraine is defending itself from an aggressor and even then slaps dozens of rules of them which they follow for the most part. These situations aren't comparable. Unfortunately Ukraine is being dragged into Israel discussions more and more, around the topic of funding wars. I believe the messaging should be different on Ukraine. We are not "funding a war", we are funding a defence. Ukraine's fight is for its survival. There is no peace deal, Russia does not want one, they have never wanted a true one, a "peace deal" only delays Russia's ultimate goal while they rebuild which is a complete takeover and ethnic genocide of Ukraine. For Ukraine it is fight or die, they have no other choice. The West is aiding Ukraine in that, the West is not deciding when Ukraine's war ends because Ukraine is its own country, only Ukraine has the final say on when the war ends. These are the differences. What the IDF has done to Palestinians over the years is horrific and the West can be and should be criticised for turning a blind eye to it, Ukraine's situation is different though and they deserve our full support. I don't know enough about the Israel/Hamas conflict, I think both IDF and Hamas are abhorrent (Netanyahu is a piece of shit too) and neither care about the innocents in their war, I feel sorry for the innocent Palestinians and Israelis caught up in the war and I honestly don't know the solution to this particular matter so I won't pretend to know. This situation is far more complicated than Russia vs Ukraine. |
The people responsible for this comparison are the western leaders, it's an uncomfortable comparison but we should be the one making it, otherwise, we leave the space for people with bad faith arguments and pro-Putin voices to occupy this space. For example, when you make the comparison, you get to point the difference effectively like you did in your post, a pro-Putin voice would stop at pointing out our hypocrisy but they'd end up seeming the reasonable side if we don't speak up and if we don't point the hypocrisy before they do.
The west has got it wrong on both wars, the Ukrainian conflict is the one conflict that we should win, our response should've been swift, determined and unified, all we are doing is giving the green light for Putin and the likes to do it again and again. I have been thoroughly disappointed with what we've done for Ukraine, our sanctions backfired and made the enemy stronger and our self-inflated image has been exposed to every dictator in the world, this is just the beginning and one assault of many to come.
We don't need to repeat the Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen and the countless of other mistakes, we should've learned the lesson by now, but alas, whoever we elect, is a slave to military complex. We are not innocent of Netanyahu's actions, I am not a purist, there is always going to be tragedy everywhere in the world, and it's impossible to absolve them all, we're effing apes after all. But these IDF bombs are bought with our money, these children are killed with our taxes, these are our politicians. You say IDF won't listen to when our leaders but they won't even say the C word, let alone pull the levers that will effectively put Netanyahu in his place, of which there are many.
We don't have to know much to figure out that Netanyahu is blood thirsty maniac fuelled by his religious beliefs and publicly declared expansionist ambitions that preceded this war. There is no objective that can be accomplished by killing all these innocent children and women unless the objective is stealing more land, expanding the Israeli state, killing children, produce survivors that are easily radicalised after what they've been through drinking sea water and beg for their limbs to not be cut off while we're watching.
