Leynos said:
As for his mind for the business. He failed multiple times as a booker and often contradicts what he thinks is ok in wrestling. He thinks a Nazi Storm Strooper and a Ninja Turtle is ok. He thinks midgets and that sorta comedy is ok. Then he goes on how comedy had no place in wrestling such as the shithead wearing bad suits carrying a tennus racket. He's a total POS and multiple stories of him being racist. Got fired from NWA on Youtube for racist commentary. There is no justification for his BS. Thinks it's funny when a man forcefully shoved his dick down another mans throat in the locker room because it's the old south and that's wrestling blah blah. |
Yeah, that clip is pretty gross. I do believe that was quite some time ago. Three decades perhaps? If he said something like that today, or defended having said it in the past, then I would likely no longer be a listener. He was essentially using the Michael Richards defense, in other words, I wasn't saying it because I hate black people, I was saying it cause I knew it would piss him off. And did he actually say that, or was he telling the story from the perspective of someone else? He tends to tell stories of other people from the first person perspective so I'm not sure if that's the case here or not. I believe he's acknowledged that he was wrong there, and I genuinely don't think he holds the same views today.
The NWA commentary thing was I believe he said something along the lines of someone being so badass they can ride through Ethiopia with a bucket of chicken on their back. His explanation was that it was a joke about starvation, a la Starvin Marvin in South Park. And that the joke would have to involve some kind of food that could be strapped to one's back, for instance fried chicken. Can't go ride a motorcycle with a pizza. Was that his thought process? I certainly don't know. It's a plausible explanation. And if someone believes it was intended as a racist comment, or was a subconsciously racist comment, totally valid opinion. I'm undecided. Based on his conversation about it, I do not think it was intended to be racial. There's at least a decent chance it there was some unconscious bias, which I also see in some of his other opinions, for instance his tendency to lump female Japanese female wrestlers together. And plenty of his comments about women are mean spirited, particularly in terms of unnecessary comments on their appearance. If you wanted to make a moral argument, I think there's a much better case for misogyny.
That being said, it has to be emphasized how ridiculous the firing was. The comments were made on a youtube show, which was not aired live. So, other people would have seen it, and it didn't jump out at them as particularly offensive. Firing was to save face on the people who really should have caught that in editing.
To be clear, I am absolutely not advocating anyone should take Jim Cornette as a moral role model. Definitely has some character flaws to work on. But does anything make me think he's so evil I should boycott? Not really.
As for the Nazi character I'm not sure exactly what the objection is? I just don't know the context. Was he supposed to be an actual Nazi like from WWII? Or a modern, for the time, Nazi sympathizer? Are you arguing silliness or offensiveness here? Nazis do still exist, and I don't necessarily mind them in wrestling if the portrayal was negative. I have heard him talk about the turtle thing, which was untelevized at small after school show. I would need to see this in some more context. Was he arguing that this person was actually a turtle? Was it some kind of mascot fighting him? I dunno. These also don't seem very representative of his overall style or approach, as they are two examples from a few decades. As for bad suits and Tennis rackets, I'm not sure what the objection is? A manager can have tacky tastes and what's going on in the ring can still approximate a real contest.
His position on comedy in wrestling is often misrepresented. His general point is that wrestling should be close enough to an actual contest to suspend disbelief, particularly when you're dealing with top stars. Could a guy in a mascot costume beat up a pudgy manager? Yeah probably. So depending on the presentation it might work, particularly when it's in a break spot. On the other hand, you take something like Bray Wyatt. Is it possible for someone to whisk John Cena into an alternate cartoony dimension and battle him on the astral plane? Obviously not. So, that's a consistent position. Not necessarily correct because I like Bray Wyatt, but consistent.
I really never have seen much of his actual booking. I've heard good things about his runs in OVW, which produced some top WWE talents, and Smokey Valley wrestling. As for failing multiple times, well yeah. The wrestling business kind of all runs go south eventually. WWE kind of killed pretty much any territory. It's also not always clear whether booking or other business factors are to blame for a particular territory failing. Jim Cornette also has anger issues that frequently get in his way. For example, his run in OVW ended due to him slapping Santino Marella, not due to his booking. I really would love, although it will never happen, to see a Cornette booked promotion with the kind of budget AEW or WWE has. I'm honestly not sure if it would be a success, but I'd like to see if people would react as he expects.
But while I don't know about Jim's overall quality as a head booker, he clearly has a good grasp of how certain types of things should be done and produced. Listening to his shows, there's a lot of great details about how certain angles (i.e. fireball, handcuffs, etc.) ought to be done, and what he says generally makes a lot of sense, particularly in terms of execution. He has probably the most encyclopedic knowledge of wrestling history aside from Dave Meltzer, but might actually be better in terms of the territories. So, I'll stand by my great mind analysis which is of course subjective.
As for the story with... I believe it was the Midnight Express and the penis? I would recommend anyone to listen to it and make their own judgement. It absolutely made my stomach turn a bit. It's something that maybe a decade and a half ago I might have found an amusing story. Definitely not something I would ever do, but because it was men and purported friends doing it could be a funny practical joke. And, I would have been absolutely wrong about that. I don't think he wants anyone to be victimized in a way that would psychologically damage them, I think he just doesn't think that this case would be such an assault. Which again, is absolutely wrong, because you never know how someone might react to sexual behavior which is the whole point of consent. Is it enough for me to say I'm not going to listen to anything he says again? Apparently not. Definitely think he needs to rethink his position on this one, but there is a difference between him having a really bad take on one situation and being a general advocate of sexual assault.
TL:DR version is essentially that I don't agree with him on a lot of things, and vehemently disagree with him on some. But I would not say that he is especially racist (I think most of us have room to improve), or supports sexual assault, but that he definitely needs to reflect on these, and other, matters, and hopefully come to better understandings on them. And, I think there are examples where he has seemingly recognized areas where he was wrong and has treated those types of situations differently in the future.
So, for me he just hasn't crossed the line where I would find him too objectionable to listen to him. To be perfectly honest I tend to like him, at least as a media personality, despite the flaws. But, other people are going to set their lines in different places, and that's their right. I stand by that he is a great source of information and analysis on wrestling, but if you or anyone else would rather not click on his stuff for personal reasons, that's understandable.
At any rate though, this is really far upstream from the topic. You can discuss Cornette in the wrestling topic we have if you want and I will, most likely, reply there.
Last edited by JWeinCom - on 07 May 2023
