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JWeinCom on 19 October 2020
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RolStoppable said:
JWeinCom said:

I think it's pretty known that my allegiance lies with Nintendo, so if I wasn't being objective I would default for them.

Whether or not it's a tough sell depends purely on the price. So, that's kind of a weird argument. PS Plus has nearly 4x on an install base only about 2X the size, so I think it's fair to say NSO counts as a tough sell.

NSO was at 10 million last August. Gamepass hit that about April. So, they're relatively on par, but Gamepass is selling based purely on its game offerings, whereas NSO is also a paywall to online play. So, it's safe to say customers are seeing more value in Gamepass than in the ability to play NES and SNES games. Unless you want to argue that nobody is paying for NSO to play games online.

Gamepass definitely adds value to XBox's hardware. The fact that its available on other systems doesn't completely negate that. By that logic, NSO is worthless to Switch owners, because there are other legal systems that can play all of those games, and also they're very not hard to obtain through less morally upright means. 

For me, buying XBox hardware was the easiest and cheapest way to get access to Gamepass, so it drove me to XBox hardware. And even if I did wind up doing it on PC/Mac/Linux/w/e, that'd still be part of Microsoft's ecosystem. On the other hand, buying NSO was something I begrudgingly did to play online games. The SNES and NES games just made me slightly less salty about it. Maybe there were some people really dying to play Super Mario RPG that don't know about emulators/have firm moral values/can't find an SNES Classic/didn't buy it on the Wii, but I don't think NSO is doing all that much for Switch hardware.

Exclusive content is good, but the business model is somewhat archaic. Don't know if it will shift as drastically as TV and music towards some kind of subscription based model, but that's going to be a big part of market by 2030, and Nintendo needs to have some kind of solution in that space whether it's a direct competitor to Gamepass or their own take. NSO as it currently stands is nowhere near that. Or they can just decide to do things how they've been doing them... but that hasn't worked well for that many companies.

Yes, it's known that your allegiance lies with Nintendo, but I also know that you assign some inherent kind of inferiority to 2D games, hence why your subjectivity is prone to override an objective assessment. Your NSO number is outdated, so your ensuing argument that is based on subscription numbers is moot.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2020/09/nintendos_switch_online_service_now_has_more_than_26_million_subscribers

Game Pass and NSO are different types of offerings, but Nintendo has no need to include their new games in a subscription service because they have no problem selling them at full price the old-fashioned way. If NSO's apps continue to grow at the same pace for the next ten years (~40 games per year), they will have ~500 classic games by 2030.

Comparisons with other entertainment media don't work because they've never had the same relationship between hardware and software as video games do.

 

I assign inferiority to 2D games? Huh. Rather impressive how you can say something that manages to be both entirely irrelevant and entirely untrue. 

The most recently played games on my Switch are Mario 3D All Stars, Super Kirby Clash, Super Smash Bros, Kirby Fighters 2, Super Mario Bros 35, Donkey Kong Country 2, Megaman 11, Fire Emblem Warriors, Super Mario Bros 3, and Pokemon Sword. Most of those have only 2 dimensions. 

I'm also not sure why this bias would somehow influence my thoughts on Nintendo and Gamepass. Since I've had Gamepass I've actually only played three games to completion. Bloodstained, Marvel vs Capcom Infinite, and Wargroove. All 2-D games. Gamepass actually has a lot of those.

So, I dunno. Seems like the evidence points to me liking 2D games. And, I'll also just go on record saying that in general I have no strong preference towards 3D games. I'm sure you have some compelling evidence to the contrary to present... otherwise it'd seem like you're pulling things out of your ass.

500 games? Ummmm... cool? Really not sure what the point of that is. And, they're already scraping the bottom of the barrel as is with Operation Logic Bomb and The Peace Keepers, so even if they keep going at the same rate, I'm not sure how much value is getting added to service. Also not sure why we're assuming they're going to add 40 a year when they added less than 20 this year.


I did post dated figures for NSO, and indeed, XBox Gamepass is lagging behind. But, the graph in that article shows that Switch online subscriptions spike whenever a big online game is released. Which kind of supports my point that the classic games on NSO are not really adding much value to the system. 

There are no technological hurdles that would prevent Nintendo from doing a Gamepass style service on the Switch. The software is still linked to the hardware, you're just not buying it in a different way. Alternatively they can use streaming and not have the hardware linked to the software. Or, they could use some kind of hybrid, and use a streaming service to get around the Switch's hardware limitations, which they've already played around with in Japan.

Tradition is a pretty weak argument in the tech world.  The circumstances have vastly changed, and will change more. 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 19 October 2020