Shinobi-san said:
I disagree I don't think you actually address anything and certainly not at the quality of rebuttal that you task me with (zero proof). Example 1: I say that there is a band or variation within natural athleticism among a biological sex and that there is some overlap across gender. You simply reply and say that the variation is so huge that it doesn't even matter. You have less evidence than me in saying that - as there is no current sport where male and females compete with an even spread of outcome to prove otherwise. And now you probably going to ask for a citation here when its common sense. So if you cant see how you are wrong on a such a basic item then what are we doing? Example 2: You also limit the discussion to top tier but its not even clear if you understand all the levels of sport if you are saying that anything outside of the top tier (which is truly a small small % of competitive sport) is not important. I clearly state that it is these formats of sport that are most vulnerable as there are no regulations and gender testing etc.The fact that you so easily dismiss all forms of competitive sport is ridiculous and is also not a rebuttal. Example 3: You talk about seperating based on skill and not gender. It will end up being the same thing. At school level 90% of men are better than woman. You are going to end up in the same predicament - as the transgender woman will end up competing against men again. Its a circular argument. You say a lot of random points with zero backing but you want me to cite for some basic points. |
1) I don't think that is really what I said. I am speaking about the concept of fairness as a whole. Why is it fair to put two individuals with vastly different natural attributes contributing to their prowess at a sport in the same pool? Like, I am asking you why you make the distinction here, at an individual level, between sexes? I acknowledge that if we take the best male players of a sport and pit them against the best female players of that sport, the male players will probably come out on top. I am not disputing that, but I also don't think it really matters, especially given the evidence that I presented that an individual's performance relative to their peers tends to stay pretty consistent athletes before and after transition. We have to acknowledge that trans women who have undergone transition are not competing on the same level as cis men. So, my two issues are:
a) Why is this line between sexes the one that is important, when speaking about fairness, when there are divides in fairness everywhere?
b) This argument exists upon the false premise that trans women are competing at the same level as cis men.
2) Again, why is it more unfair for a low/mid level trans woman to compete in a women's sport than a high level cis woman? I am asking you for a counterpoint here.
3) Okay. If the system is built that way, I don't see an issue with it. I think you are wrong (as I previously demonstrated) and that a lot of trans women would be matched well competing with cis women, but that is besides the point. The problem is that the system is not built that way. My issue is discrimination, not who is competing against who.
Note: This is primarily a reiteration of my previous points.
