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Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

Science hasn't been the sole reason no, but science also hasn't been around as long.

Say what?
Science has existed before modern man, while we were still in caves and discovered primitive tools and fire, before we could form coherent sentences and speech, to even comprehend any religious doctrine.

That pegs it to about 1,000,000 years or more. Minimum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans

The Christian Religion? (Which is written on paper... A scientific invention...) was 6,000 years ago.

HMMM. Science > Religion.

The Aboriginals of Australia have existed for about 50,000-125,000 years and are genuinely an ancient civilization... It makes your Religion seem new by comparison... Almost like it was invented?
https://www.oldest.org/culture/civilizations/

EricHiggin said:

Without religion ever existing, would things be better or worse now? Does anyone know the answer to that? Is there an answer? Science has done more good than harm, so far, but so has religion, so far. Both can be improved.

Better without religion.

We probably wouldn't have had the crusades that wiped out millions.

We probably wouldn't have burned witches at the stake.

We probably wouldn't have attacked the LGBTQI community for thousands if years.

And we wouldn't have science deniers. - Flat Earthers will often reference the Bible to justify their flat-earth beliefs... Others use the Bible to deny evolution and basic geological factoids.

We wouldn't have terrorists who use Religion to kill people today.

So you can bet I stand by the belief we would be better off without religion.

EricHiggin said:

Science is based on how the physical universe functions. Religion is based on the spirituality behind it. It's not comparing apples to apples. Do you also think movies, tv shows, books, etc, that are fictional, are a joke and an insult to a free thinking individual?

There is no evidence that any of the spiritual hocus-pocus exists... So religion being based on that is irrelevant.

Movies, TV Shows, Books etc' that are fictional are ADVERTISED and KNOWN to be fictional... People aren't trying to pass something off like Independence Day as something that actually occurred in human history like Religion.
So no... They aren't a joke to a free thinking individual.

EricHiggin said:

Everyone is also born selfish and greedy. If kids weren't 'indoctrinated' in some structured manner, the world would be absolute chaos compared to what we have now. The strong would absolutely cripple the weak. Is that natural default a better world to live in?

I disagree that everyone is born selfish and greedy.

Doesn't make indoctrination right.

My position is... That religion is a joke... And should be totally shut down from top to bottom until they can prove their assertions.

What now?

Discovered stuff in caves? Without advanced language or... advanced mathematics...etc, which meant no religious doctrine, as well as no science?

I'd like to see those cavemen's proofs. I can't imagine they would've suggested it to simply be "black magic".

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Probably? 

Sure doesn't sound like unquestionable scientific proof. Sounds more like...

I'm not pointing out all the non religious, science related negatives, again. I think we both understand these by now.

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There never used to be scientific evidence that gravity existed either. Did gravity only come about more recently? Something was going on behind the scenes. Better figure out how to prove what it is? How long do we wait to prove something before we give up? Still waiting on undeniable proof of exactly how the universe came into being. Guess that means the universe doesn't exist, or is irrelevant?

Is Independence Day possible though? Seems like plenty of people aren't against other forms of intelligent life in the universe. If they do exist, could they be as powerful and hostile? Something we don't know for sure and can't say for certain as of now? Sounds sort of like...

If it's important to know that this entertainment is fictional, why isn't that made more clear to kids? Why do we allow kids to play fight based on these idea's and sometimes even hurt each other? Why do we sometimes use this 'insulting' fiction to teach kids a valuable lesson? Does what a youngster learn, mold who they eventually become?

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If you've spent much time around kids when their 'indoctrinating' parents aren't around, and they understand they can get away with more negative behavior, that's exactly what they do. You can literally watch their sympathy fade knowing they won't get in major trouble for not doing so. Now any good indoctrinated adult wouldn't let that go for long, but it doesn't change the fact that's what occurs as soon as you allow the rules to be bent or broken. Those rules are all part of the indoctrination process, and so why don't they happily and easily follow them? It's not natural, that's why.

Based on that, climate change for example is a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously whatsoever by the public. Until science can undeniably know all factors and what they lead to, exactly, then it should simply be scientific doctrine. No green energy projects, no subsidies for those projects, no green taxes.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 28 March 2020