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sundin13 on 14 August 2019
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VAMatt said:
sethnintendo said:

You sure that the gun ownership among population increased or just the amount of guns sold increased?  Because to my understanding people who own guns own multiple if not shitload of guns.

I bet half of the increase in gun sales was due to republicans scaring their base into believing Obama would take their guns away.  Gun sales have fallen drastically since Obama left office because no more scare tactics.  Some major gun manufacturers have even declared bankruptcy.  Basically the gun manufacturers need another democrat in oval office so they can scare their base into buying more guns.

Both the number of guns per gun owner, and the number of gun owners have increased, yes.  

And, yeah, the gun industry went nuts during the Obama years.  The crash after that was very predictable.  Ironically, I bet most of the gun industry insiders were Clinton voters . 

The percentage of households with guns has actually been dropping for the past few decades (which kind of recontextualizes your original assertion):

Azzanation said:

Lets look at Russia, a country who enforced gun laws to avoid more killings.

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https://www.usacarry.com/guns-russia/

Strict Gun Laws and Less Guns But Higher Murder Rate
While Russia has far fewer guns in circulation than the U.S. and strict gun laws, Russia has a much higher murder rate, according to Russia Today. Russian police also regularly seize guns from the public and melt them down, like recently in the Rostov-On-Don region, according to the website.

Approximately how many non-military guns are registered in Russia? Are There many un-registered guns there? Are most Russian crimes committed with unregistered guns?
According to the same report, the Russian Federation holds approximately twelve million unregistered guns illegally. Russia requires gun owners to register all guns. Police investigated about 26,500 crimes related to the illegal circulation of weapons, at that time.
Unregistered weapons or weapons acquired by a person who used it for criminal purposes make up the majority of the weapons used in crimes according to various reports. While Russia maintains relatively restrictive gun control legislation and strict procedures regulating the purchase and storage of firearms by private individuals, there is a huge black market in Russia for weapons. Most weapons used by criminals are stolen military or police guns, guns sold by law enforcement personnel who seized illegal weapons from criminals and did not register the confiscation of those firearms, or firearms made from modified non-lethal guns, according to a legalization of weapons article on the Russian NewsRU website.

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Now after reading all that, my point is that America has a culture issue not a gun issue. Because as Russia has been trying to change for the better, the criminals still get the guns.. and don't tell me the USA doesn't have a black market scene either. Its probably even worse than Russia.

You keep comparing Australia to America. Just because Australia did it and it worked doesn't mean it will work in the US. When Guns were allowed in Australia, we had a very strong Western culture, that changed over the years, that's what really stopped the shootings, not removing guns. Also AUS doesn't have the same issues as the US as they have a huge black market scene, Gangs and the crime is much more different.

End of the Day, if we don't change the culture than these crimes will continue to happen regardless if you remove things from the public. The blame game is easy when you don't like something but reality is its not the Gun that kills people, its the people that kill people.

You can't really have a conversation about Russia's homicide rate today without acknowledging that in 2001, the homicide rate in Russia was about 7x higher than it is today. In less than twenty years, it has dropped from 30.5/100k to around 5.18/100k (which is actually lower than the homicide rate in the USA (as of 2017, when it was 5.3/100k). Compare that to the change in the USA's homicide rate from 2001 to 2017 and you will find it almost unchanged (5.7/100k to 5.3/100k).

Further, "gun control" isn't a binary or even a sliding scale. There are hundreds of different individual laws which make up the totality of "gun control". One area may have strict gun control that is ineffective due to its poor selection, while another may have lax gun control that is effective due to its strong selection.

Last edited by sundin13 - on 14 August 2019