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sundin13 on 11 March 2019
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o_O.Q said:
sundin13 said:

a) Distinguishing is not discrimination.

b) Rephrase please. I'm not really sure what you are referring to when you say "that". Are you saying "black minstrel character are racist", or "criticizing black minstrel characters is racist", because the former seems to contradict your point a, while the latter seems to be kind of ridiculous. As a side note, criticizing tired stereotypes is not "attacking" anyone, and certainly not attacking anyone over their race. And just so we are clear, fictional characters aren't real.

c) How is race relevant socially? I mean, you have to ignore basically my whole post to ask that question, but to give a tldr, different racial groups have different experiences regarding their race. For example, if you are black you are more likely to have certain kinds of experiences, or know someone who has, regarding discrimination by the police or the legal system, or have people assuming that you are doing something illegal when you are just going about your day. To put it very simply, race still evokes expectation. You can argue that it should not (or that it doesn't in you personally), but you cannot argue that it does not. As previously stated, that would be an argument from ignorance, not from reality.

a) "Are you saying "black minstrel character are racist"

well yes obviously

 

b)" And just so we are clear, fictional characters aren't real."

were your statements directed at the creator's of the characters or the characters themselves? 

i mean obviously i'd naturally assume that it was at the creators but i could only interpret this to be an implication of the latter so maybe you can clarify

c) "As a side note, criticizing tired stereotypes is not "attacking" anyone"

if the character in this game was asian no one would give a fuck, which means that simply a change to his race would make him acceptable

how is that not racist?


d) "You can argue that it should not (or that it doesn't in you personally), but you cannot argue that it does not. As previously stated, that would be an argument from ignorance, not from reality."

and the solution to that is what exactly?

increase the focus on race? or decrease it? personally i'd think the former would be the way but maybe i'm missing something

the only end result i can envision for harping about race constantly is to further the divide between people in terms of race

a) See below.

b) When I was talking about "colorblindness" I was criticizing the arguments brought by certain posters here. When speaking about stereotypes, I was primarily speaking about the characters in the abstract but you could draw from that a criticism of the author now that you mention it (however "criticism" in not equivalent to "attack"). That being said, your previous comment "f you(not you specifically) continue using race to attack one group of people what do you think they'll do" still doesn't apply, because no one (or no "group") is being attacked by race...

c) Alternately, if the black minstrel character wasn't black, no one would give a fuck.

Like, yeah, this has already been addressed. Race is part of the stereotype. If you change the stereotype, it isn't the stereotype anymore.

d) The solution is this: Write better characters.

Thats it. If your character is a lame stereotype, it is going to be called out for being a lame stereotype, and rightly so. Don't make all your black characters thugs, all your asian characters math geeks, and all your Indian characters taxi drivers or convenience store owners. Just write better characters. This isn't complicated and it has nothing to do with "focus on race" (whatever that means).