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Mandalore76 on 13 February 2019
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DonFerrari said:
zorg1000 said:

Streak was wondering how PS3 could be seen as a failure, Mandalore explained because it lost a ton of marketshare & money. He never actually gave his opinion on whether PS3, GC, Wii U are successes/failures.

Why are you bringing up separate conversations about separate things like they are relevant at all?

Right now youre just on a crusade to make it seem like Mandalore has some anti-Sony agenda.

So we moved the goalpost to he not saying if any of those systems are failure, but why others see it that way since you couldn't counter he saying that GC and WiiU aren't a case like PS3 that was considered a flop?

Not a crusade and not anti-Sony agenda, but that both posts were on the same direction of downplaying PS4 sales and rationalize PS3 flops with others not being. And you instead of saying what you think of that you try and change it on an attack one me questioning his motivations.

And also didn't see you saying if PS3 is a flop and N64, GC, Xbox, WiiU are failures?

Mandalore76 said:

This is you & Streak claiming that Microsoft and Nintendo consoles that sold 30 million or less are considered to be successes.  Not myself or anyone you are arguing with.

So are N64, GC, WiiU, Xbox flops/failures?

This me saying they aren't "looked at in the same way", and giving clear reasons why.

So if they aren't looked the same way, are PS3 flop and N64 or WiiU not failures?

Then, you doubled down on your claim that PS3 is unfairly considered a failure, because Sony has set the bar so "very very very high" for themselves with their previous console successes.  But, this completely ignores everything I pointed out about lost marketshare, massive financial losses which completely erased their own profits from their unbelievably successful previous gen, and substantial amount of lost customers.  And you counter with, "Sony did that on purpose", and Sony didn't actually lose customers or marketshare, because the Wii shouldn't be considered home video game console competition to other home video game consoles.  I owned a PS2.  In the following gen, I made a conscious decision to buy a Wii, but not a PS3.  So yes, a competitor in the home console space took money from them.

Not "unfairly considered a failure", I have no problem to consider PS3 was a big loss for Sony even if I liked playing on it more than on PS1 and PS2 before. But for someone to consider 85M a failure shouldn't consider below 30M a success.

And yes although Sony didn't lose marketshare on purpose, the financial hit was a calculated move. But you can try and explain how do you think they intended to make profit selling 800 HW for 499? They knew they would lose money on the HW that was used to push BD and Cell, neither brought the money they wanted in other departments, but they losing money on PS3 because of it doesn't make PS3 itself the reason for the loss.

They lost marketshare, to X360. But they didn't lose the leading position because you and others may like to use the "when someone say Wii didn't compete with PS360 is because of....." Nintendo multiple times said they weren't competing with them, they were on blue ocean strategy. And great that you changed from PS3 to Wii, that certainly was the case of majority of the sales PS3 lost coming from PS2 not X360.

Second time I made bad claims?  I made 1 erroneous mention of PS4 having received 2 price cuts in it's first two years, and apologized for being wrong.  What others defended was that the PS4 did have 1 price cut before the end of it's 2nd year.  Something the Switch has not had.  Funny how when someone else made a mistake earlier in this thread, you were quick to offer sympathy.  But, when I admit to being half wrong, you are quick to say I make "bad claims".  Now, explain to me where my "2nd bad claims" are.  

The OP have numbers that cover a period PS4 hadn't any pricecuts. It then had one before the end of it's second year. But will you claim that your post using PS4 having pricecut had no intention of justifying any sales difference? What exactly are you calling sympathy? 
ArchangelMadzz said: 
Funny how they keep swapping places when the other reaches the holidays..

 

jonathanalis said: 
Interesting how it change spots with ps4 every 6 months.

The PS4 also received 2 official price cuts during that time.  The Switch is still selling at original launch price.

 

 

This is not being half wrong. Is being fully wrong. PS4 didn't had any price cut on the period show in the graph of OP. And to what you replied seems like you tried to downplay PS4 position by it having 2 price cuts. Do you deny it?

Multiple posters were commenting on how the Switch and PS4 will continue to trade spots every holiday.  All I did was point out that the PS4 had a price cut before its 2nd holiday, while the Switch has been selling at full price since launch.  I'm not downplaying PS4's sales.  It has sold ridiculously well this gen to the point of Sony themselves coming out and saying they don't know why its selling so well.  All I did was state a fact.  And, I've already apologized for stating that there were 2 price cuts in first 2 years, when it was 2 price cuts in 3 years (1 before end of 2nd year, the 2nd before the end of the 3rd year).  Mistakenly saying there were 2 price cuts when there was only 1 is being half wrong.  Last time I checked, 1 was still half of 2.  But, you seem to want to keep harping on something I already admitted to being mistaken on.