danasider said:
Runa216 said:
I think the thing that pisses me off most about the circumcision 'debate' is that absolutely none of the pro-circumcision arguments come close to matching the anti-circumcision arguments. Or, for that matter, just one argument.


None of the arguments I've EVER heard are even close to the same level of 'it's a man's penis, it should be his choice in the end, he shouldn't have that choice taken away.' this isn't something like 'do we pierce his ears' or 'we want to cut our daughter's hair and make her bald'. This is a permanent, life-altering decision and change in genital anatomy that will impact his ability to enjoy sex for his entire life.

Arguments like 'it's easier to clean' are positively inane. Clean your dick. Teach your kid to clean his dick. ITS NOT HARD. Will kids laugh? Who cares? Circumcision is, AT BEST, a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Will it hurt more or be more impactful when you're an adult? yes, but again that's his choice; if he feels its worth it then he'll do it. a few weeks of discomfort to have what might be to him a better experience is worth it. A man is a child for 18 years before he becomes a man, but after that a reasonable person can be alive another 50-60 years after that. At that point if he REALLY wants to get cut, that's up to him, but if he was and wants foreskin, too bad for him. No need to get into the stupidity of religion.

But my point is simply that it's a lifetime-lasting decision based on a parent's worries about the kid's first 1/5 of their lives. Even if for some reason a penis WAS hard to wash (it's not) or it WAS more subject to diseases when uncut (it's not), then circumcision is still shorthand for "I'm a bad parent who can't be bothered to teach my kid how to not be a disgusting slob so I'm just gonna remove the issue.",

Again, ALL of the arguments pro-circumcision ONLY concern the first 18 years of the man's life, presumably half or three quarters of which he won't even be having sex. Why does ANYONE find it a reasonable decision to do this to someone at birth based solely on mistruths and shortsightedness?

If you circumcise and they resent it when they get older, then they're stuck with YOUR decision. If you don't circumcise and they wish to be upon getting older, then VOILA, they're able to. It should be their decision.

Parents make decisions for children all the time.

Additionally, I'd argue the choice is more important for the child's adult years, as that's when they'll be having the majority of sex. And in the US, circumcised penises are just more accepted.

I'd also wager that the people complaining about a lack of choice haven't actually had a circumcision. I've never heard of a guy who was circumcised as a child complain about it in their adult years. We don't remember it. Most of us are happy our parents has us circumcised as infants.

However, I have heard about complications with regard to adult males having circumcisions. And I have heard about guys being less confident due to perceptions women have of uncircumcised penises.

YEs, for things that impact them only as kids that makes perfect sense. Circumcision is with them forever whether they like it or not. 

If it turns out they circumcise you and you're happy with that or don't notice a difference? That's fine! good for you! I'm happy for you. But I must repeat myself again by saying that if they DO circumcise and you want a foreskin, too bad for you. Their decision just impacted you for the rest of your life based on faulty, out of date data and silly traditions. If you grow up and decide you want to be circumcised - say you like how it looks or you just wanna try it - that's YOUR decision. It's still a permanent one, but at least YOU, the owner of YOUR penis and recipient of the pleasure that comes from it, made the decision. 

I do not understand how you justify that gamble. You're taking only a small group of potential circumstances into consideration and using it to argue a point. 

Would you appreciate it if, today, your parents came into your room and started telling you what positions you could do with your wife/girlfriend? Would you - or anyone - be amicable to the idea that your pastor could come into your house and make a decision about YOUR junk for you well before you had the opportunity to make up your mind? 

Sure, there are people out there who were circumcised at birth and okay with it. For those people, I'm happy. I truly am. I'm glad that, by chance, your parents made a decision that you agree with and appreciate. However, I've been on this earth more than 30 years and I've learned there ARE NO ARGUMENTS that even hold a candle to the magical word: Choice. As an adult male, you should have control over your genitals. That's the final say. YOU and ONLY YOU (maybe your boyfriend/wife/husband/girlfriend) should have that say, and that decision should only be made once you're at an age where you have a basic understanding of how your cock works. Never before. 

Take a 4-square grid. On the X axis you have two options: Were you circumcised at birth or not? On the Y Axis, Are you happy with this decision or not? 

If you were cut and happy with this decision, then cool! Nothing changes. 

If you were uncut and happy with this decision, then cool! Nothing changes! 

If you were Uncut and unhappy with this decision, you have the choice to get cut! 

If you were Cut and unhappy with this decision, you're stuck with it regardless. 

So realistically, there are NO negative results if you are uncut at birth (And, you know, not a disgusting slob and don't let peer pressure force you to mutilate your dick to fit in). But if you ARE cut at birth, there's a chance you will be stuck with that and unhappy about it your whole life. The potential negative effects of being uncut are absolutely nothing compared to the lifelong misery you might have thrust upon you if you're cut and resent it later in life. HAving met many men (and partners of mine) who hate their parents for having them circumcised but NEVER met a person who was uncut and for some reason hated their parents for that or resented it tells you all I need. you know why? because if you're a grown-assed man who wants to get rid of his foreskin, then you have that option and therefore it's not worth being bitchy about. 

Then again, I've also never met a man with foreskin who hates it. Why? Because it's good! Keeps ya tender and sensitive and soft and well lubed and more pleasured in the act! 

Point is the same I've been saying all along. Uncut is better at birth because you can make the decision on your own upon becoming an adult. There are no good reasons to circumcise from a medical standpoint, and simply 'accepting' your parents choice is not a good enough reason to take that decision away. 

People in this thread need to stop asserting 'well it's okay for me so therefore it must be okay for my kid' as an excuse. I pierced my own clit with a 14g needle and that was fine. Doesn't mean it's for everyone. I have tattoos, I have modified parts of myself to fit my needs, that doesn't mean I'd do it to others. You should NEVER make the decision for someone else, not for something that is so intimate, especially not a decade or more before they have the sexual maturity to know what they want. 

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