Update: Latest rumor shows casting for a white Ciri | Original: Netflix looking for non-white actress to play Ciri in the Witcher tv series

[DonFerrari]

sundin13 said:

DonFerrari said:

Not only Japanese, I'm including all countries that aren't majority "white" (as if everybody that have "white skin" were the same), did you miss Bolywood?

So it's unreasonable to force other countries to change their culture (I guess then Witcher belongs to American culture?) but it's ok to demand USA change their own to "be inclusive" to foreign culture? Or when they adapt other country original work and make it american being offended is right or wrong?

This post seems to say pretty clearly "If you aren't white, you aren't American", which I have more than a few issues with. American actors playing foreign characters is not the issue we are speaking about when people speak of whitewashing. The issue is white actors playing foreign characters. The fact that you act like the two statement are one in the same says quite a bit, in my opinion. This is largely the false dichotomy that I have been speaking about. America is not white and whiteness is not American. There are likely dozens of thousands of minority actors in America, and many or most are not representing different foreign cultures. They are representing America.

This line of thinking is what creates so many issues in Hollywood. Roles which are written for "Man from New York" usually go to white actors, because of this fundamentally flawed thought process which ties "American" to whiteness. If the studio wants to give some roles to Indian actors, they will look for someone to play "Indian Man" (or "Indian Taxi Driver" or "Indian Convenience Store Clerk"), not "Man". What this does is strip away the identity of minorities as "American", which most of them are, being that they are seeking roles in America. Giving a role to an average black actor is not inserting African culture into a film any more than it would if you cast me (I'm white by the way). Saying "How about we give some roles to minorities" isn't saying "represent foreign culture", it is saying "represent the parts of America that you have been pretending don't exist".

As for your other points, does Bollywood have a large population of underserved minority (in India) actors? I specified Japan because I know much more about it that India, but I would assume the same things would hold true. And yes, a Netflix created adaptation of The Witcher is considered an American cultural product.

Sorry man, but romania, pakistan, nigeria, japan, argentina, etc aren't american culture. And Yes there are always people demanding changes in American Culture to be more inclusive. And no didn't say America is white and white is America, even more when I said to you that "white" is not even a thing, as much as black or asian. It is a racist way of denying all differences in culture and ethinicity and reduce it to skin color.

But I see that you accepted that whitewashing is something people complain and are met with appraisal, but for some reason when it is the opposite it is also good because it's progressive, it is a double standard BS to defend anything you want and deem it good.

Funny you mention of the NY Man, because when we see USA and all the ghettos and resistance to adapt to local culture, keeping the culture from the country they are from is exactly what keeps the notion that they aren't America.

India being an ex part of the British Empire I would bet with you they have a lot of white folks that talk the local language. And again as I said, even if they don't speak they can be dubbed.

No Witcher is from where it is, being shooted by Netflix doesn't make it an American Cultura product, much as BJJ being used by and American fighter doesn't make it not Brazilian.

sundin13 said:

Mummelmann said:

I've never said there can't be minorities in the world, in fact; there are minorities in this universe. The racial tension issues are mostly described through the hatred and oppression towards non-humans, as a very direct and on-the nose way of showing cultural and physical differences and clashes.

As I'm sure I've mentioned before; Ciri's mother is a descendant of elves and her father is the Imperator (Emperor) of the Empire of Nilfgaard. He was marked by aggression in his expansionist ambition and policy but actually surprisingly lenient and accepting of the outsider races, such as Elves and Dwarves, which is a significant point in his overall character since it clashes with the overall Nilfgaardian beliefs and norms and their varying degrees of disdain for certain colonies, provinces and annexed kingdoms and races/cultures.

From the wiki pages of Nilfgaard; "The Empire's inhabitants believe that "real" Nilfgaardians are only those born in the heart of the Empire, and not those born in the conquered provinces."

So they're pretty much like white supremacists in many ways, making Emhyr var Emreis something of a revolutionary in his more accepting views, he opposed certain racist notions despite being a "real" Nilfgaardian. Do you see how this could be problematic if you changed his ethnicity? It's a huge point in the setting and the marking of a new direction for the Empire and its dealings with many provinces and cultures, he could never have been who he was without his "clean" heritage, it would turn part of the entire world's political history on its head.

As for the mother, Pavetta, she is of the kingdom of Cintra, a northern kingdom where there is absolutely zero chance of anyone other than a true northerner being heir to the throne. The way in which she met Emhyr is quite famous and rather scandalous, it broke with traditions and eventually led to Emhyr launching a second massive attack on Cintra later on. He failed to conquer it but they managed to kidnap a girl resembling Ciri (who was known to be heir to the Cintra throne at the time) and absorbed Cintra by means of marriage to this girl.

These are huge events with global ramifications on the lore and setting and are even central plot points in some of the books. Yes, it might seem trivial to change the ethnicity of a fictional characters, but in this case it would result in a great deal of rather massive changes in the setting and story.

Edit; and don't ask "but what if Ciri had different parents?", that would nullify literally the entire point of her character since her heritage is paramount to her role in the world.

I should have specified, when I mentioned minorities, I mean "people who are typically considered to be racial minorities in America", not that the concept of a "minority" doesn't exist.

Besides that, why can't you change the skin color? You seem to be attaching our concepts of ethnicity to these characters where they don't necessarily exist. I am not asking why can't a "Cintra" person be a "Other Location" person, I am asking why can't a "Cintra" person be kind of tan?

Because unless they can explain that they have a different way of heritage than DNA, and how you transfer a lot of information through heritage, but skin color is something totally irrelevant that no one even notice and there are a lot of black people (or any other non pale white) son or daughter of pale white people you will just making the "well she could be black because of reasons, DNA doesn't exist". Suspension of disbelief, fictional freedom and all else needs to at least pass the coherence and verosimilitude aspect to be acceptable to the viewer.

danasider said:

DonFerrari said: 

So let me get it. We are racist for wanting the material to keep as is, but someone that would only watch a program if it have actors of his skin colors are the not racist? Great logic.

Did you quote the correct post? Your response makes no sense.

Runa216 never said anyone is racist in the post you quoted nor was it even implied. She was only saying that skin color likely wouldn't mess up this or other works of fiction in terms of casting, because the skin color of these characters isn't fundamental to the themes of the story. No judgment was cast on those that don't agree.

Also, Runa216 said she would watch the show even if it was an all white cast (see the bolded text). While something like Black Panther, imho, would have its themes greatly affected by white washing the lead character, the examples she gave (Dragonball or The Ancient One in Doctor Strange) were viewable, because their race changes didn't really change the story in a significant way. Many believe the same can be said for Ciri.

You probably should read what you are responding to. I personally agreed very much with Runa216's response, but even if I didn't, I could see you are putting words in her post that simply aren't there.

Guess you should read more of his posts.

The heritage of the char is of paramount importance to the book, and the relatives are royalty of white skinned people so she being non-white would be a break on what is in the core of the story.