By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
TH3-D0S3R said:
sundin13 said:

I agree that "Trump" is an oversimplification of the issue. However, I think it would be naive to assume that there has been no effect on race relations due to Trump. The effect of all of this rhetoric is breeding fear and hatred, two very strong catalysts for violence, and still quite damaging by themselves.

I also agree that the other questions you asked are very important. Unfortunately, there is little that I can do to answer those questions. However, I think it is safe to say that the way we fix this isn't by taking the path that Trump has put us on, assuming "this" is "poor race relations". I think that he deserves every bit of criticism he receives for how he has largely handled issues such as these, and I do think that vocal criticism of Trump's rhetoric is important.

We should acknowledge that there is much more to this problem than Trump, but I don't think we can simply ignore the rampaging elephant in the room while trying to deal with those more delicate nuanced issues.

Bad race relations have ramped up since the Obama administration with the case of Zimmerman and Martin. I would say it started to peak a bit during the Baltimore riots and the Dallas police shootings, but honestly it isn't as bad as it was previously if I'm being fair. Now, if we are talking immigration restriction, this doesn't just boil down to one side. Trump is a dunce when it comes to formulating academic phrases, but the left have thrown such a hard curveball in that what Trump says to me doesn't sound near as bad. I wont argue that Trump has said some edgy statements, but his basic ideals are based in laws. Hell, anyone remember when the Democrats were defending MS-13? If you want to say Trump has no validity and shouldn't be taken seriously, then maybe the other side should be slightly more reasonable and not defend a bunch of thugs who beat women and children. I agree with Trump that immigration laws should be enforced. A basic gen ed in economics taught me that. 

Trump may be a nuisance, but how can one blame a terrible kid when the parents made him the way he is?

I agree that race relations have been exacerbated by a number of recent events, including the case you mentioned, however, that statement is not mutually exclusive with the statement I made. It is a point that I largely addressed in the post that you quoted when I acknowledged that Trump is far from the only factor.

As for your statements about the left, they are so vague that I cannot adequately address anything other than your statement regarding the "democrats defending MS-13". I can only assume you are speaking about the incident where someone criticized Trump for saying that they are not humans and that they are animals. I don't really think that counts as much of a defense, and reading it as such is fairly hyperbolic.

Dehumanization is a very dangerous road to walk because it is a means of excusing the violation of human rights. Contrary to the beliefs of some individuals, even criminals have rights. This is kind of a fundamental part of our country. We guarantee certain rights to people, even after they have committed crimes, and that is not something that we should get away from. To make dehumanizing statements, even about criminals, is a means of convincing people that these individuals are not deserving of human rights, and I see nothing irrational about criticizing Trump for making statements such as this.

And that is before getting into how Trump utilizes MS-13 to attack immigrants. He constantly injects them into debates of immigration and uses this rhetoric as a means of conflating the groups. He attempts to utilize a tiny minority of individuals to attack a whole group. He uses MS-13 to justify violations of human rights such as his recent family separations policy. Trump's Justice Department has put out figures regarding MS-13 stating that there are about 10,000 members in the US. Even if we were to assume that every single one of these is an illegal immigrant (which is a fairly ridiculous assumption), that makes up 0.09% of Illegal Immigrants.

Choosing to interpret this situation as simply as "Democrats are defending MS-13" is incredibly reductive and poorly reflects reality.

As for your Gen Ed Economics class, the economic argument surrounding Illegal Immigration is actually fairly complicated. There are quite a few ways in which illegal immigration has a positive economic impact, and some argue that overall, the economic impact of illegal immigration is positive. At the least, the economic argument against illegal immigration is incredibly overblown.