Delaware students can now choose their own race (Yes, RACE!) under new regulations.

[Final-Fan]

o_O.Q said:

Final-Fan said:

1.  I agreed that they adapted FROM wings INTO flippers.  They are not, in their present state of evolution, wings.  I don't see why we shouldn't either call them legs (by your logic, since the wings were just evolved legs) or flippers (by my logic, since they used to be wings, and used to be legs before that, but now are more properly called flippers). 

2.  "i expected better to be honest"
I'm afraid I can't really say the same.  But I was hoping you would surprise me. 

I will make one more attempt to see if you are trolling by dumbing the logic down to an elementary school level that any minimally intelligent person who is not willfully ignorant and/or flat out lying should be able to follow.  You don't strike me as a clinically retarded person so here we go: 
a.  I grant your point that in the present day there is no living continuum of creatures leading gradualistically from elephants to fish. 
b.  You seem to have granted my point that when considering both the present and the past, including the very distant past, there has been a living continuum of creatures leading gradualistically from elephants to fish (via a common ancestor in the past).  If you do not grant this point then you should have fucking said something a long time ago, but feel free to correct your error now. 
c.  Since there is a continuum of creatures, each infinitesimally different from the next, connecting elephants to fish, where you see the natural, strict group distinctions separating one creature from another infinitesimally different one, separating mother from child even?  The fact that they are differentiable today does not mean that there is not a connection between them in the past, and the separation was never sudden by human standards.  If it appears that way to you I maintain that it is an illusion courtesy of the blurring hand of millions of years. 

I dumbed down the logic but I still used big-people words, so let me know if you need help with the vocabulary. 

Another analogy:  Where do you draw the line between the atmosphere and outer space?  The sky doesn't have a clean-cut ceiling.  The International Space Station experiences orbital decay because although it is outside what most people think of as the atmosphere there is still a very small amount of air even that high up.  Not enough to cause short term problems, so they just deal with it instead of pushing the whole thing to a much higher orbit. 

"I agreed that they adapted FROM wings INTO flippers."

(1) so they are adapted wings?

 

"I grant your point that in the present day there is no living continuum of creatures leading gradualistically from elephants to fish. "

(2) that wasn't my point, which was that fish and elephants having a common ancestor is not at all relevant, since we are talking about present time

do you understand the concepts past, present and future? linear time?

 

(3) " You seem to have granted my point that when considering both the present and the past, including the very distant past, there has been a living continuum of creatures leading gradualistically from elephants to fish"

what? are you now claiming that elephants evolved into fish?

 

(4) " Since there is a continuum of creatures, each infinitesimally different from the next, connecting elephants to fish, where you see the natural, strict group distinctions separating one creature from another infinitesimally different one, separating mother from child even?  "

we do so with the concept called "present time"

do you understand what present time means?

when we consider your height for example, you grew over time to your current height

does the fact that you gradually over time increased in height have any relevance to what your current height is?

if someone said "well i'm on a height continuum from a foot at birth to 6 feet now so i guess i can't really answer what my height is" that would be stupid right?... well that's your argument in a nutshell

 

(5) "The fact that they are differentiable today"

thanks for conceding my point 

 

"I dumbed down the logic"

what logic? you just conceded my point above

i mean i only really bothered with this convo from the start to see how far you'd twist yourself just to have an argument and its been amusing

 

(6) "Where do you draw the line between the atmosphere and outer space?"

the boundary occurs where atmospheric pressure reaches zero... that's why we call it "space" to begin with

0.  I now believe you are intentionally trolling, but I'll play this out a little while longer.  Please pay attention to the numbers since they changed. 

1.  No, your term "adapted wings" is pointless.  It means nothing more than "they don't have wings, but their ancestors did". 

2.  Yes, I do. 

3.  No, that isn't even remotely close to what I am arguing.  You aren't even in the ballpark of describing the concept.  Go back and reread carefully, and take note of the parts you fail to understand.  Let me know what parts are beyond your comprehension. 

4.  Okay, so someone was 1 foot tall at birth and they are 6 feet tall now.  I think it would be fair to say that you were short when you were 1 foot tall, and let's say 6 feet tall counts as "tall".  Do you think it would be possible to identify the exact moment they stopped being "short" and began being "tall"?  I.e., 17 years 3 months 23 days old?  Or is there a fuzzy area?  Would you say these are just groups humans use to help categorize the world around them and "short" and "tall" are not "natural strict groups"

5.  You're welcome, but that's not the only claim you've made. 

6.  So, for example, you would say that the International Space Station is not in space?