Delaware students can now choose their own race (Yes, RACE!) under new regulations.

[Final-Fan]

o_O.Q said:

Final-Fan said:

1.  But you didn't call what dolphins have "paws" or "feet" or "legs".  You called them "fins or flippers".  If you do that, then you should not, I argue, call what penguins have "wings".  They adapted from wings, and from legs, into something that is different from wings or legs, but which is very similar to what the other aquatic species developed.  We (both you and I) call these fins or flippers. 

Let me put it this way:  Scientists believe that bats evolved from land-dwelling mammals.  Should we call what they use to fly "legs" because they were legs before they were wings, even though they are flying around on them?  Penguins used to have wings.  They evolved to have flippers.  Ostriches have vestigial wings because they apparently didn't need to fly anymore.  All they do now with them is balance and send social cues.  Penguins don't have vestigial wings.  They have a new thing that they use to move through the water instead of through the air.  They have flippers. 

2.  I did go back and read what he said.  What I found was not what you said, but something that I thought could potentially have been misinterpreted by a careless reader into something within a mile or two of what you said.  But I have been wrong before and I will be wrong in the future, and you can prove me wrong now:  go back and find the exact quote that is "exactly" the blanket assertion that there exist no groups into which animals can be sorted, and let me know what you find. 

3.  I ask you again:  what was the point of your question, "why don't elephants swim with fish in schools?"

very informative but you have not disproved my argument that penguins have adapted wings... in fact you verified it here

"They adapted from wings, and from legs, into something that is different from wings or legs, but which is very similar to what the other aquatic species developed.  We (both you and I) call these fins or flippers.  "

"Penguins used to have wings.  They evolved to have flippers. "

 

" They adapted from wings, and from legs, into something that is different from wings or legs, but which is very similar to what the other aquatic species developed."

this is wrong, the adapted wings penguins have are covered in feathers... can you name another aquatic creature with feathers?

 

"Living creatures aren't inherently divided into strict groups. Scientists made these groups up, and adapted the definitions to their 'sources' ( = all creatures in existence)."

"I don't think you'll find that he made the blanket assertion that there exist no groups into which animals can be sorted."

why were you too lazy to go back through the thread and verify whether your claim was valid or not?

 

his claim above is why i asked the absurd question about whether elephants swim with fish or not... because its obvious that they do not... can you tell me why?

while you're at it tell me why elephants don't reproduce with lions or with gazelles

this has to be the most stupid discussion i've had in a long long time

1.  You didn't address my analogy to bats.  If it's true that penguins have "adapted wings" and not flippers, doesn't it also have to be true that bats have "adapted legs" and not wings?  If not, why not?  If so, doesn't that seem like a ridiculous position to you?  

To answer your "aquatic creature" question, I'm not sure—what do you define as an "aquatic creature"? 

2.  He speaks of two sorts of groups:  hypothetical "strict groups" that he asserts are not naturally generated, and human-made groups that "scientists made up" to organize the diversity of life into a structure that makes sense to humans, but which is not 100% perfect. 

You say you can satisfy the claim "he made the blanket assertion that there exist no groups" by pointing to the post where he said "scientists made these groups up".  At the very least, there is a serious miscommunication that is occurring somewhere here.  (Identifying what that miscommunication might be, so as to move past it to understanding, is more important than laying blame on one of the three of us for it.)

3.  Once again you simply reiterate your question as if you were using some kind of retard-mode Socratic method.  I will indulge you and answer your questions as requested.  Elephants do not swim with fish because elephants have evolved to be land dwellers, and fish have (for the most part, I think) evolved to be wary of large creatures splashing towards them.  Elephants do not reproduce with lions because their common ancestor is very far in the past and they have become genetically too different to produce offspring with each other.