What is "socialism"? - An attempt to clear up myths/misconceptions

[Puppyroach]

sc94597 said:

Puppyroach said:
A very good description of what classical socialism is. I don´t really agree that it can´t co-exist with capitalism unless you refer to a model where democracy is replaced with something else and only one ideology governs society?

Because we don´t have a capitalistic or a socialistic or a liberal or a conservative system in society; we have a democratic system in many countries that incorporates influences from all types of ideologies (and religions). Just because we don´t have a socialistic society, it doesn´t mean socialistic influences are nonexistent.

Could a socialistic society form under a democratic system? No, humanity as a species is far to complicated to agree on one ideology for the entire society and I am also pretty sure that we are a hierarchic species that strive to create flocks on both a smaller scale (workplace, sports teams) and on a large scale (governments, municipalities) with clear leaders and a hierarchic structure. Socialism would have a hard time deconstruting our very nature that has formed society.

A few things:

1. Most socialists reject that what passes as democracy in liberal democracies is all that democratic. 

2. There are fundamental protections in liberal societies against democracy which are indeed ideological. 

3. In most of human history people didn't organize into hierarchies. It was only with the first agricultural revolution that hierarchies developed and after they peaked (in slave societies) they started to devolve into more and more egalitarian societies over the long term: slave societies -> feudal societies -> short period of absolutism -> liberal democracies. 

Humans aren't bees. We are able to modify the social organizations we live in because we have the ability to learn and adapt as individuals. 

1. Ofcourse all democracies have issues just like any societal structure, but they are still democratic in that those that have the right to vote decide who should lead the countries. But that has little to nothing to do with whether or not a socialist society could even be democratic.

2. What are those protections? We have some limits like having a voting age or in most cases using a representative democracy, but what protections are you referring to?

3. It was when we developed more advanced cultures and grew in number that hierachies were necessary for us to form an effective society. In our early development we had a more collaborative structure but often times leaders existed aswell, and I do believe it has been very benefitial from an evolutionary perspective. We are indeed very adaptive. a large reason for our success as a species, but we are still animals with underlying behavior that form the society we live in.