Justice league disappoints at the American box office

[torok]

irstupid said:

Parademons whole mission was yes find boxes, and as you said they killed casualties n the way. Which those people were in their place, and the movie made it abundantly clear that fear was like a homing beacon to them. Yes this terrified family sitting on their front steps is ignored. Most superman thing he has done? He saved people in his first fight in Man of Steel. He stopped fighting the two kryptonians to save a guy flaling from a helicopter and allowed himself to get a free punch taken. He took doomsday into space and even allowed himself to get nuked. Also he died for humanity. Hell, he even killed the last kryptonian to save a random family. Him flying off to pick up a big building for a comedy gag doesn't all of a sudden make him superman.

That people was not in their way, how would they pose any threat to their search? They were just being ignored. It's not like the parademons were attacking tons of people during the film, they were mostly running errands for Steppenwolf.

In MoS he may saved this people, but he didn't cared when he was throwing Zod into buildings. Also, Supes wouldn't kill him. He would find a better way to deal with Zod (in a previously retconned 90s comic book he did it, but the 90s were mostly retconned due to terrible writing, both Marvel and DC).

The final fighting scene in BvS was mostly OK in that aspect. I recon they were at least trying to make it look like they care about civilians. Most of the issues with that film are on the murderous rampage by Batman and the general nonsense they used for most of the plot.

The resurrection yes, was all Snyder, until batman showed up. Then it was all reshoots. You can tell by Batman's body and face shape as well as Superman's fake cgi face. So him chocking and death threats to batman as well as batmans I'm bleeding line are all Wheden. How was Superman a bully in the previous movies?

A bully? In BvS he simply destroys the batmobile and threatens Batman saying he won't tolerate a vigilante (come on, Superman is also a freaking vigilante, it's not like he is a cop or something legal). I qualify ripping off his roof and threatening him because you're a god-like Kryptonian as being a bully. In that universe, Batman was completely right in creating a Kryptonian bust suit and using kryptonite.

In the ending, Luthor demands that Superman kill the Bat. Super goes to Bruce, tries to reason for 30 seconds, gets mad and starts to fight. So we can assume that he would basically do exactly that, kill the bat and take his head to Lex to save his mum. 

The real Superman would rather let his mother die than killing someone to save her. He would find a way, but he would never, ever, try to attend such a demand (his second confrontation with Manchester Black on the comics shows exactly the kind of self control he has).

The Diana/Bruce thing was forced. It was awkward and out of place in the time of the movie. Her outfit only made it even more glaringly out of place. But how about we talk about the sexualization of Wonder Woman. She has the most highly rated and loved DC movie to date, yet in this series she is brought back to basically a sex object. I dont' know who was the filmer in the scenes, but there were quite a lot of butt shots that you could see he actual skin of her butt. Every single member of the justice league except superman made jokes about her being super attractive and wanting her. Flash fell on her boobs during an intense action scene for a joke. Reminded me of Age of Ultron where Black Widow was forced into a weird romance with Hulk, and coincidentally enough there was also a scene were someone fell into her boobs. And as I said, she 'needs' a romance in the movie.  Also heard people complain about her normal clothes being very risque. I didn't notice that, cause all actresses in all movies seem to dress unreasonably sexy in every scene.

The Black Widow/Hulk thing was ridiculously forced. Anyway, I don't think having a romance with Batman will diminish WW as a feminist icon. In different ocasions in the film she saves him and she is clearly portrayed as the "muscle" until Supes arrives.

Or how about Lois's Thirsty joke. That was horrible. Considering what is all going on in Hollywood right now with sexual harassment, this movie was really bad towards women.

That line was terrible indeed.

Don't give a shit about critics. They are weird to me. They hate on comic book movies and want original stuff, yet praise each new marvel comic book movie.

100% agree here. I normally like Marvel films, but they are starting to be too formulaic. Ragnarok was basically Guardians of the Galaxy with a new painting. And they also ruined Planet Hulk in a single go.

Batman murdering. I hate when "fans" get upset about that. Batman has killed in comics, canon and non canon versions. He has killed in every single movie he was in. Hell, he even made jokes as he killed in the Keatonverse. But lets not compare apples to oranges, lets just talk about this universe alone. Him being a grizzled worn down, broken Batman who has fallen was the freaking whole point of BvS. He has a line in the movie alone the lines of "How many good many have we known, how many have stayed that way" Or how about Bales line in one of his movies. "You either die the hero or live long enough to be the villain". Both of those quotes clearly work for this batman. Batman was the villain for the first 2/3rds of that movie.

Batman does not usually kill. However, if he had to kill someone to save the Earth, he would do it. That's the difference between him and Supes, Batman will do it if extremely necessary. Supes wouldn't. I don't know how this makes BvS, where Batman was killing Luthor goons in a chasing scene for no reasonable motive acceptable. The problem isn't really having him kill people, but having him basically killing anyone even if with no reason at all. The scene where he kills the guy who would kill Martha was the only reasonable one: it was either that or she would die.

A good example is the old Justice League cartoon. In an episode, Deadshot was ready to kill one of the League members by surprise, but Batman ended up killing him when saving his friend. He felt terrible for that afterwards, but Batman is the guy that will do it if necessary.

The old movies are hardly a good measure, they didn't cared about being close to the source material at all. In the Nolan films the whole Joker thing is based on him trying to make Bats kill him and failing to corrupt him.

Everyone wants their DC superheroes to be how they want them. Which is a bit impossible, considering there is like 20 versions of each one. Do you want the Donner Superman? The new 52 Superman? The golden age superman? Silver age? Red Son Superman? Ect. Same for batman. There are a million variants and fans can't seem to be happy unless its their perfect one. Marvel has it easier as their characters are basically unkown to 99% of the public beyond the movies.

I wouldn't say that these characters are so inconsistent on comics. All these comic book Superman versions are mostly the same. The biggest difference between Gold/Silver/Bronze Superman is the power level, not his personality. The biggest change they did was New 52, where he was more arrogant and, in general, a douche. But he wouldn't kill anybody, he was just really kind of a douchebag. Things like Red Son or any other are basically "what if" scenarios. Batman is also consistent, except by the golden age (he killed people). He got a bit corny in the 60s to follow the TV series and then became the modern Dark Knight after Miller's run. And that was at the end of the 80s.

The current Batman dates from the late 80s. 30 years of consistency. Modern Superman is basically the post-crisis (mid 80s), but even his Silver age version was the same. They only rebooted it to the modern version because the Silver age Superman had ridiculous power levels and no villain was a threat to him anymore.

 

Don't think that I really feel these jokes are necessary. I just don't mind them unless they reach a ridiculous level. Ragnarok was probably the first Marvel movie where was basically wishing they stopped doing that because it was too much. I guess they need jokes for the mainstream public, just to go crazy adding them.

My problem with the tone Snyder set with BvS is that he was trying to be dark for no reason. It looked like a teenager wanting to be edgy. Just like his interview where he said that he would do a Batman movie where he could get raped in prison. It was like he was trying to be edgy and dark and thinking it looks cool.