RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:
That's kind of the gripe I have ... this whole "now we're going to make a system that appeals to everyone including novice/casual/mom (whatever term you want to use)" strategy is basically really means: "We're going to make a casual/beginner style console, and don't you dare complain, just shut up and accept it if you're a Nintendo fan because we're still giving you Zelda and Mario, and maybe if you're realy nice and we feel like it we'll fart out a Metroid.". Experienced gamers are asked to make *all* the sacrifices in this supposed "marriage of casual and experienced" hardware philosphy:
1.) Remember how the NES, SNES, N64, and GameCube were all large hardware leaps in line with the other systems of the time ... well too bad. Now you have to accept hardware that's 1+ generation behind the other game systems on the market and is basically outdated on day 1. OK so no competently specced Nintendo hardware is in the past.
2.) You still should pay full price though, the "cheap" Wii was $250 for the longest time, meaning people who bought the GameCube which was $99 by 2003, in 2006-2009 basically paid $250 for the same hardware moderately overclocked with a $20 plastic new controller thrown in to justify the difference in price. OK, so we want the outdated hardware, but you still gotta pay out the ass for it.
3.) What aspect of the Wii or Wii U were really made with "core" players in mind? The terrible online setup? The "fridge" miniscule flash memory on the Wii that Nintendo refused to update for several years? Being stuck with SD graphics for 6 years longer than Sony/MS players? Oh, I guess Nintendo was kind enough to give us a Classic Controller. OK, so we get token throw ins.
4.) Hope you like the same 10-12 Nintendo franchises .... and basically only Nintendo games because we're going to gimp our hardware so that third parties don't take it seriously. So basically Nintendo fans have been forced now to have to pay an extra $300-$400 to purchase a Playstation or XBox or gaming PC to get access to the top tier non-Nintendo gaming content basically. OK, so don't like any major third party games I guess.
5.) B... bu ... but innovation! Wii and Wii U were so innovative! Really? Which "core" Nintendo IP really used the Wiimote centrally? Metroid Prime 3 and uh ... waiting five years for Skyward Sword controls that really no one is upset about not having back. Wii U touch screen that could have been used for a more powerful chipset instead ... uh ... we got maybe 1 game that really used it in a great way (Mario Maker) in 4 years. Pfffft. The NES, SNES, N64 had plenty of controller/control innovations without the trade offs.
That's just my issue with it all. "Experienced" Nintendo gamers are expected to basically sacrifice any type of reasonably up to date hardware, kiss any chance of any good-to-great developer support (because apparently we should only play Nintendo games), so that "non-gaming housewife" can have a cute little console that doesn't make too much noise and doesn't look all threatening to her.
I wouldn't have an issue with Nintendo pursuing a wider audience ... sure, great go for it, but why does it have to come completely at the expense of what "experienced" gamers want? It doesn't look to me like the casual/beginner audience is being asked to make any sacrifices. Wii U had a poor chipset because casuals don't care about graphics, no HDD because casuals don't care about storage, an expensive touch panel for casuals, came with Nintendo Land and NSMBU because casuals will love that ... but hey we got two analog sticks! Oh yippie, what a fair trade off. I'd have no problem with this strategy if it was sincerely *balanced* to meet the needs of both audiences in an honest way, not bending one section of the fan base and expecting them to sacrifice on several fronts so Nintendo can chase the next casual golden ticket.
If you're going to make a console for "everyone" then make a console that is legitimately for everyone. Not one that has every major design decision made for casual/inexperienced players first and foremost, and the answer to experienced/core players being "well we're giving you Zelda aren't we? Just shut up and buy it already".
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This is the perfect example for what I've been saying in this thread, that there is a significant difference between gamer terminology and what Nintendo is saying. In a previous post you also called this difference "semantics" because you truly believe that the terminology is interchangeable. Everything you argued in the post above is from the perspective that PS, Xbox and PC are the only things that an experienced gamer would enjoy. That's incredibly ignorant and at the same time insulting to experienced gamers because it insuniates that they are very close-minded.
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Point remains, I'm fine with Nintendo making accomodations for other audiences, my gripe is that we as experienced gamers or whatever term you want to use (go ahead and make one up) are the ones being asked to make every sacrifice.
We used to get perfectly reasonable technology in line with the other systems on their day from Nintendo, now basically every aspect of their modern systems are really design first and foremost for beginner/non-gamers. I'm sorry if you don't like the distinction but it clearly exists.
And basically for all these trade offs, what we're told is "shut up and accept the inferior hardware which is still pretty expensive and accept little to no third party support so we can make our hardware this way to suit this other crowd, but we're giving you Mario and Zelda, you should be happy enough with that."
Well you know what? The NES/SNES/N64/GameCube had Mario and Zelda too, saying "you're getting Zelda aren't you" isn't good enough.
If Nintendo was genuine in this whole "we're making hardware for everyone" then the system would be legitimately designed for everyone's needs. Which the Wii and Wii U clearly were not, they were designed primarily for a beginner audience and their needs were put first in virtually every design decision, but we got a nunchaku or dual analog for core players, whoopity doo.
Nintendo is being disingenious in making these kinds of statements. They are not making hardware with "everyone" in mind, they're making hardware very clearly for beginner/casual players in mind, and traditional/experienced players are the ones being asked to sacrifice on their expectations (don't expect good graphics anymore, don't expect great developer support, don't expect good online, don't expect a HDD storage standard, you have to pay extra for a traditional controller, you should be happy with Nintendo Land as your pack-in title, we don't need to give New Super Mario good graphics because casuals don't care about graphics, etc. etc. etc.). These aren't imaginary trade-offs, they are real and tangiable, since Nintendo went this "blue ocean" direction, Nintendo players who are enthusiasts have been asked to sacrifice their expectations while still paying top dollar.
