SHOCK CLAIM: Ukrainian fighter jet shot down Malaysia Airlines' MH17

[Final-Fan]

Sharu said:

Final-Fan said:

What have you found out so far?  What are the Russian people being told about the MH17 shootdown that disagrees with the official Dutch Safety Board report? 

We had the report translated to Russian and its the same as official. 

Russian position is that the plane was shot down. And that we demand investigations. We have facts (shown by Rus MoD) that during shooting down Ukraine Jet was in the area. Officials in Russia never say that that jet shoot down Boeing. But it was there, shown by radars and Russian satellites. 

Antey (producer of Buk missiles) made an experiment (blasting old boeing with the same type of missile on the same angle/distance as in the report) but the results are very different then the damage we see on Boeing. 

Very suspisious thing for me is that Ukraine didn't provide records of talks between plane and Ukraine's air traffic controllers. Also the controllers are lost, with no official information where are they. Another suspicious thing is that USA didn't provide yet its satellite information during incident.

I don't know if we'll ever know the truth about this incident, but I'm sure its not the simple 'bloody donetsk rebels under Putin's command shoot down civil plane because... because... You know, Russians are evil!'

Thanks for looking into this. Of course, I still have some questions about what you found. 

[edit:  reponded in post below to air traffic control issue and other things]

Source please for intelligence on a Ukrainian jet being in the area.  Has the Russian government publicly released this satellite and radar data? 

Source please for Buk's experiment. 

What satellite information do you think the USA has, and what light would it realistically shed on this incident?  Do you think it has some data the Russian satellite data lacks?  Also, with all the chaos that was going on there, why is it so remarkable that the Ukrainian government has lost track of where some people are? 

What is the Russian position on the Twitter post by the rebels immediately after MH17 was shot down, in which they claimed to have shot down a military aircraft (although Ukraine lost no aircraft in that period of time), and which they deleted after they found out that a civilian aircraft had gone down in the area? 

I don't think reasonable people believe that the rebels were directly under Putin's command.  But he gave them the missiles, so he bears some responsibility, or blame, for what is done with them.  If you give a vigilante a gun, expecting him to kill some criminal with it, and he shoots a policeman, you're going to be in trouble.