Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
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Please, explain to me why we can take the idea that none of the 50 million "non-gamers" were PS2 gamers were non-gamers without a citation, but the claim that they were needs citation :)
You have no more evidence to show than I do. And it's fine to have different interpretations of the data. It's not fine to hold me to a standard that you don't hold yourself to. So, yeah. Rigged game.
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Every single one of my claims are backed up by verifiable evidence.
Oh, cool. Is it like, secret verifiable evidence or something? Cause you only showed one example of any sort of data which you admitted didn't justify your conclusion.
Sales numbers back up my claim. The stuff I couldn't verify, I dismissed.
Upon further inspection, I realize that the classification of gamer and non gamer is unsubstantiated and frankly subjective, so I've removed it from my argument. However, it doesn't change my argument in the slightest, just the terms. The 5th,6th, and 8th gen failures were from addressing the wrong market, a market that favors MS and Sony more because they aren't game development studios and the wider demographic. 7th gen, has shown the performance of Nintendo's home console in a market that the other two does not address. Thus, I surmise that Nintendo is incompatible with the current home console market, and show that the characteristics of this market are the case why.
Probably my last post on this topic. That's your theory, and if it is, that's fine. If that's your interpetation of the situation, you're entited to that, but you haven't provided anything really to back it up.
The idea that casual gaming started with the Wii is inaccurate. Before the Wii, we had Guitar Hero, Dance Dance Revolution, Eye Toy Play, Donkey Konga, Mario Party, and Mario Kart. We had tetris long before we had Brain Age. The argument that Wind Waker was designed to appeal to the same Market as Halo is a bit iffy, and the idea that Nintendo's candy colored Gamecube controller was designed as an attempt to woo GTA fans is a little puzzling as well. Nintendo has always tried to appeal to a very broad demographic.
By the same token, casual gamers have always been a part of the market. While "the appeal of games is subjective" we can probably agree that 2 million copies of finding Nemo on PS2 were not sold to hardcore gamers. Nor did the Incredibles sell 2 million. Sing It Highschool Musical, we can assume, was targeting young girls who were most likely not "hardcore gamers" and it sold 1.5 million copies. I'm assuming 3.5 million copies of Rugrats in Paris on the PS1 weren't sold within the "gaming market" you described. Add in the aforementioned Guitar Hero, the success of the Crash Bandicoot series (if that and Mario don't share a fanbase, then I don't know who does), the Playstation Move, the Eye Toy, Skylanders, and so on, there is clear evidence to suggest that there is a large swath of gamers that have always been in the market that were left out of your "gaming market".
And that's really where your argument falls apart. The idea that the gamers who bought the Wii were some bizarre alien species who came to the Earth briefly, bought a Wii, and then flew away never to game again. This segment of the market (with kids playing Mario, adults playing Tetris, and college student jamming on plastic guitars) always existed. Nintendo expanded this market in the same way that Sony and Microsoft expanded the Call of Duty market. The part of the market that Nintendo succeeded in is a part of the gaming market, and has been since before Sony entered the scene, and during the PS1/2 era.
I've already dismised the notion of casual from my argument, your counter is moot.
As for Nintendo trying to compete with Microsoft and Sony with the Wii U, that's again a claim that doesn't work. Obviously, they're not ignoring that market entirely with games like Bayonetta, and Devil's third, and Wonderful 101, but far more of their output has been focused on the same market they addressed on the Wii. Wii Sports Club, Wii Fit U, Nintendo Land, NSMB Wii, Super Mario 3D World, Mario Kart 8, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Game and Wario, Lego City Undercover, Captain Toad, Wii Party U, etc. Nintendo is trying to appeal to same market they always have.
That is my argument against them, they are readressing a market that has rejected them for 2 generations. When a market that favors them already exists as shown by Handhelds and the Wii.
As for why Nintendo isn't succeeding, that's something you couldn't squeeze into about 5 paragraphs. Third party relationships are definitely a part of it, but so are software delays, Nintendo's insistence on a small box (literally), the overestimated appeal of games like Nintendoland, a failure to properly explain the value of the Gamepad, and so on. It's a vastly more complex argument than you're trying to make, and it's not one that I care to make now. Your overly simplistic analysis of the industry's past and present renders any conclusions you've drawn largely worthless.
You want to make it compliicated, its simple. Software Delays are merely indicative of the increased strain on Nintendo from losing 3rd party support. Overestimating the appeal of their first party titles is indicative of failure to address the audience. Their is no basis that the Hardware of the Wii U is a substanstial limiting factor at all.
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