Ryse would be praised if it was by Quantic Dream.

[sundin13]

DonFerrari said:

 

3 - I didn't saw that in your definition of tragic villain. But I would say I didn't care much about his reason and found it silly, altough I do understand why he would do that, dying would solve it faster (the plot seems like Madara in Naruto).

2 - You said about making it linear. If you kept the same history and just make it linear you would know from the begging that he were researching to reunite with his family.

4 - You would be banned to say that you should get a game over and not rescued? You got a weak saving because the guy playing were a weak player (or forced the fail so he could show "the absurdity") but your only reason to dismiss she could be tired is "they didn't show her tired".

So you go from good history to bad history and consider that I agree with you without even knowing what I consider good and bad. And are even proud of it.

Don't remember any linear game that jump from "training", "first mission", "last mission", "the end".

2. It wasn't really from the begining though...He was working with Jodie and infraworld science before his family died. I think they could go a few steps farther and actually develop the characters but even just eliminating the non-linearity would improve this segment (though my key point of this was that the family needed more development)

4. I would be banned if I were to go on about how inane that comparison was...it was half joke, half passive agressive BS, but enough about that.

Sure, she could have been tired, but that really wasn't the point. The point was that super overpowered Jodie and Aiden, on the third floor of a burning building couldn't handle it, and the solution that QD came up with was "This homeless dude carried her down multiple flights of burning stairs after being established as a character significantly weaker than Jodie". We already agreed that this was silly.

Also, please explain what you mean by this "So you go from good history to bad history and consider that I agree with you without even knowing what I consider good and bad. And are even proud of it.". You said yourself that you don't consider Beyond to be a good story...you said that! Are you trying to take that back now?

Finally, "Don't remember any linear game that jump from "training", "first mission", "last mission", "the end"." Sounds like pretty much every game ever? Am I missing something here? Time skips aren't a problem in linear narrative, they happen all the time. All you really need to do is throw on a timestamp and some qualifying dialog and you have your story.

DakonBlackblade said:

You didnt, what youre doing is nitpicking. Does the story has flaws ? Yes it does, its very hard to find a perfect story in any media but it does manage to tell the tale it set out to tell and make sense in the end. Its non linearity made for an entertaining storytelling mechanic and it makes sense whithim the story itself as in the end we learn the whole game was Joddie writting down the fragments of memory she still hadnt lost after the events on the Black Sun, adn since her memory was all screwed up she wasnt remembering the stuf in theyre correct order. 

 

And you have to fail rather miserably to be saved in Homeless, so you cant realy blame the game for bad storytelling if you yourself failled at beeing a badass, Joddies is only as badass as you are capable of completting the action QTEs sucessfully (and that was the case on Heavy Rain too, you could escape arrest if you were good at the QTEs or get arrested, you could complete the car chalenge or drive headfirst into the wall and other things)cause if you fail every QTE she always gets helped or saved by Aidan or something.

Nitpicking?! What?! My points were as follows:

1. The Main Romance was terrible

2. The games featured an hour long pointless scene

3. The Villain (or Tragic Villain) was badly developed

4. The design on the game created scenarios which made no sense and go against established character roles.

Those are pretty big focal points for any story and for this to be a story based game and fail on all those points is a pretty big deal!

"Its non linearity made for an entertaining storytelling mechanic": The non-linearity was a cop out to give the illusion of a complex story. On top of that, non linearity in stories does not work in a story about character development and it ruined a large amount of the tension and mystery in the game.
"adn since her memory was all screwed up she wasnt remembering the stuf in theyre correct order.": Sounds like a weak excuse for this failed narrative device to me...
"And you have to fail rather miserably to be saved in Homeless, so you cant realy blame the game for bad storytelling if you yourself failled at beeing a badass": No, it was a fault of the game designer. David Cage's philosophy of "no game overs" came back to bite his story in the ass because he couldn't think of ways to make it makes sense. That is a bad game mechanic and a bad story mechanic.
" Joddies is only as badass as you are capable of completting the action QTEs sucessfully": That may be true, but it isn't consistent with the story...no matter what, she goes through CIA training and executes the mission in Somalia. She is a badass no matter what you do, seeing her failing like this and putting a terrible plot device to cover up your bad design does not make anything right.

You may be able to forgive all of the game's flaws, but that does not make it a good game.