| eyeofcore said: |
Hi there eyeofcore; I just can't let you get away with being so ridiculous again:
“It is subjective yet I am being realistic... Wii U is a amazing value for what you get...”
Apparently, the entire market disagrees with you, in fact; even when the Wii U was all alone on the market, it failed to keep up with 7 and 8 year old hardware in a big way. It sold a little over 3 million for the entire year while the 360 sold 5 million and the PS3 7 million and it has fallen right back to being outsold by the PS3 once more in 2014, despite the PS4 being out and having great momentum right now, it’s not as if the Wii is stealing sales with its very low weekly hardware sales. Let’s face it: the Wii U has terrible overall perceived value no matter what you think and the sales reflect this. The fact that the price cut had practically zero effect tells the same story.
“My "complete experience" is online multiplayer, patches, social network and piece of software(video game)...”
You don’t have to pay to get patches on PS4 and One, that’s not true and you’re just making stuff up to make the Wii U seem better somehow. Social networks do not cost either; it is only the gaming bit due to dedicated server costs. I’m not a fan of paying for online and I never play console games online but the vast majority of gamers seem to be okay with it, PS+ subscriptions have exploded and Live was huge already many years ago, Nintendo have a very poor online component and don’t even offer a proper account system yet.
Besides, in the very first word here, you direct the posts towards my entire point all along; “My complete experience”. All this is your complete experience, like I’ve said; plenty of people will see Nintendo’s online as a poor option, their online store is inferior, they have less features outside of gaming and bundled games are the same old franchises Nintendo have relied on for thirty years, not everyone’s cup of tea. “My” is central here, you agree then disagree, sort your argument out if you want them to carry any weight. Then again; when discussing subjective measures, there is no winning either way, subjective is subjective, yet you try to assert your subjective measures as superior (don’t deny it, we can all read, you’re spelling it directly as other having a problem because they can’t recognize the value you see yourself). You’re not blaming Nintendo for releasing an unappealing product; you’re yelling at customers for “failing to see the value”, this is incredibly weak argumentation.
Like I’ve said; you’re assuming that the games bundled with the Wii U have a great perceived value for everyone by default, this is simply not the case, and I for one would go out and buy something else in addition. And since when did a single game or two equate to a “complete experience”? I have over 300 games for my PC alone and I’m still miles away from the “complete experience”.
Edit: Did you know that if you already have Live Gold for the 360, you don't need to pay for it on One? One fee, two machines, that's a pretty good deal right there.
Did you also know that PS+ is the same? One subscription covers one PS4, one PS3 and even one Vita all in one and can net you games on all three platforms every month! How sweet is that?
Wii U is 300$ with 1 or 2 games bundled with access to online multiplayer, patches and social network are free
Like I’ve said; patches and social networks do not cost money on the others either, it’s solely the gaming bit you pay for. And what about a PS3? Free online, fantastic catalogue of games, lower price, amazing bundles etc. It seems that the market agrees with me on this as well; the PS3 is still destroying the Wii U in sales and has been ever since the Wii U launched, what does that tell you? Are all these people blind idiots or does the problem lie with the Wii U’s fundamental lack of appeal as a product and concept? Yes; the PS2 outsold the 360 in its first year, but the 360 still managed almost twice as many sales as the Wii U in that year, with horrible hardware failure rates, poor software and it did not come off of the back of a market leader like the Wii U.
PlayStation 4 is 400$ without any game bundled, access to online multiplayer, patches(?) and social network...
Once more; patches and social networks, Blu-ray player and everything else is free, the gaming bit costs money.
Xbox One is 500$ without any game bundled, access to online multiplayer, patches(?) and social network...
Same as above, you’re making stuff up to back up arguments revolving around subjective measures of value; this is doubly counterproductive.
Now add 60$ for a game and another 50-60$ for a premium account per year to have access to online multiplayer, patches(?) and social network. I remember watching a video involving Xbox Live and PlayStation Network and that you could't patch your game without Xbox Live on Xbo 360. If you want to have access to a social network from Microsoft on Xbox 360/Xbox One or from Sony on PlayStation 4 then you need to pay 60 and 50$ a year respectively to have access to these features.
Are you actually trying to tell us that the 360 could not patch even single player games without a Live Gold subscription? Stop being ridiculous, you know that this is not true, that “video you saw” must have been a dream, perhaps the same one you derive your “analysis” from.
Do you also know that the others also have bundles and will have other bundles in the very near future? What about a PS4 + Vita bundle for 499$? Is there a Wii U + 3DS bundle for 400$? No. There is also the upcoming Watchdogs bundle, Titanfall bundle etc, games that, to many, will hold vastly more value than NSMBU and other bundled Nintendo titles (Gamecube Zelda remake, really?). Besides; there are games included in the price of Live and PS+, not cheap Indie games either, real big budget productions. And you make it a point to someone else saying that with the Wii U, you can buy games online which gets you points, which in turn nets you a discount towards some titles, and this is somehow the superior option? I mean; what the hell are on about? Paying 50 or 60 dollars per year and get games included every month or pay nothing and get discounts based on how much you purchase, I don’t see the second option as vastly superior if I’m honest.
Besides all this though; you’re making it about dollars and cents at some points, when the public perception is what sets the pace for sales. Or are you going to argue against this fact as well and ignore the 800 million smartphones sold in 2012, globally? Yes, that’s what happens when a product has immense perceived value; it sells fantastically regardless of (high) price.
In the end you need to spend 510 for PlayStation 4 or 620 for Xbox One to have the same complete experience as Wii U which is just 300$. People whining about Wii U's price are rather pathetic, acting nitpicky about every cent/dime that they spend...
So, wait a minute; are you saying that the Wii U isn’t better value for money? “Acting nitpicky about every cent/dime they spend” certainly makes it sound like that. Isn’t this a massive contradiction to your main point? Besides; the PS4 and One are not the same experience as the Wii U, different concepts, different software, and different hardware.
My head hurts when I think about how people rather 510$ just to have fun yet they could on the same budget buy a Wii U bundled with 1 or 2 games and then buy another 3 games that are exclusive to the console like Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World and The Legend Of Zelda The Wind Waker HD or bunch of Virtual Console and indie games.
Has it ever occurred to you that not everyone in the world has the same taste in games as you? Have you considered the fact that a lot of gamers’ heads will hurt thinking about how you settle for a console with incredibly poor developer support and vastly inferior hardware and less integrated OS features as well as inferior online?
What they could not do if they bought a 300$ Wii U, is buy a PS4, see the problem here?
Perhaps people would rather play X-com than Pikmin 3? Maybe not everyone in the world are as excited as you about the prospect of playing Super Mario 3D World? Perhaps they prefer Skyrim over a remake of the least popular mainline Zelda installment? Did you know that Nintendo are among the worst in presenting Indie titles on their online store due to their incredible arrogant attitude towards small developers (and other developers in general)? Do you know that they see user generated content as an evil that only detracts from the quality and value of the medium? Do you have any idea about anything in the gaming world at all? It certainly seems not.
What about all those who want to play Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Gears of War, Uncharted, Forza, Battlefield, Halo, Titanfall, Destiny, Killzone, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Red Dead, GTA, Resident Evil, Bioshock, Saints Row, Dragon Age, Final Fantasy, Half-Life, Left 4 Dead, Far Cry, Mafia, Little Big Planet, God of War, The Last of Us, inFamous, Ratchet & Clank, Tomb Raider and Burnout? What about them? You would probably discredit all those franchises but that’s my point; the other two consoles will have fantastic support and a breadth that the Wii U can only dream about, they can play Blu-ray movies (the Wii U doesn’t) and they have superior visual and audiovisual quality, and a lot of gamers see that as a good thing when they choose to make an investment in an entertainment device.
The Wii U has amazing perceived value for a hardcore Nintendo fan but mostly not for everyone else, and the sales reflect this fact. The Wii had amazing perceived value, the PS2 and PS1 as well; the Wii U simply does not, regardless of your personal feelings on the subject.
I agree with you, but at least with 1800$ worth PC you could do way more things than with a console that is 300-400$... Video and CG/CGI rendering, server stuff, hosting multiple games, PC is a multi-purpose device.
And it is a vastly superior gaming platform. I can literally play almost every single game in the world, through emulators you can play NES, SNES, N64, GC, PS1, PS2, Xbox, DS, GB and everything else you can imagine. You can also emulate Android to play those games (but who the hell wants to…). In addition, there is the most amazing backlog of games of any platform; tens of thousands of titles and even new games are a lot cheaper and run in technically superior versions, there are community generated mods and content etc.
For me; all three 8th gen consoles have very little perceived value, and the same for most of their software.
When I was talking about Wii U and its value then I was thinking about Wii U's gamepad it self that has own screen, stereo speakers, a microphone, camera then free access to online multiplayer, own social network/features are also free... Also you get one or two games from get go when you buy the system and you can play them or you could sell those two games to recoup the cost of your purchase in case you don't plan on playing them thus you buy a game that you want to play.
The Gamepad is being compared to regular tablets; that is its main problem, it is inferior to even cheaper tablets available globally. Yeah, another screen that doesn’t support the consoles native resolution, a 6.2” screen with an 854x480 resolution; that is Stone Age territory today, compared to everything being sold with a small screen. Speakers? Yeah, they’re not exactly grand, the Gamepad’s speakers, and hardly a selling point, even the Wii-mote had a speaker built in and the PS and Xbox comes with a headset in the box. Microphone and camera; have you heard of Kinect 2.0? That also has a microphone and a camera; perhaps some people see the value in that? They are superior as a camera and microphone at that.
And, for the last time; you pay to play games online on PS4 and One, and nothing else. And the online features of the Wii U are very poor in comparison; I don’t think a lot of people would like the idea of paying for an inferior product, and even for free, this service fails to attract any significant number of customers, what does that tell you?
How about this then; have you considered just how many people see the value in Live and PS+ for a yearly fee? These services obviously have a high perceived value since people seem not to hesitate to get them. If the fee was such a deterrent; a lot more people would steer away from them, they opt to steer away from the free alternative instead (Wii U).
Your subjective opinion is that Gamepad is great value, the market disagrees. Your subjective opinion is also that the games bundled with the Wii U are awesome regardless (seemingly) but you forget to consider the poor support the Wii U has and will have, all those 3rd party games it will never get. The Wii U is perfect for anyone who craves Nintendo 1st party titles and not much else, not so much for most gamers, you’re refusing to look at the offerings of each console without removing the Nintendo goggles and fall completely short of understanding the market as whole, this is also why your “analysis” are what they are; namely worthless.
Each console has pro's and con's, at least with Wii U you can basically do a lot of things from the get go without any aditional fee's.
And there’s a bunch of things you can’t do; the tiny storage makes installs and digital copies a problem, it does not play Blu-ray, it has terrible support, it has hardware that is at least 1-2 chipset generations behind the PS4 and One but still sells at a loss, you still need to purchase Wii-motes if you want to use them (and most Wii U owners seem to prefer the Wii-mote as the main controller), the online component in inferior in every way, there is no proper account system; all your stuff is tied to the hardware etc etc.
I know that you think it has amazing value, the numbers speak for themselves though; most of the gaming world and industry disagree with you.
@underlined A big NO... I am just telling what is obvious that people are ignoring or not thinking about.
No, you’re clearly stating that the Wii U has a higher value for money because it costs less and that people are being silly for not seeing it. And then you sort of go back on this and talk about how people “whine over every spent penny” and then you’re back to telling everyone that the Wii U is better value period. You’re not leaving it open for disagreement, and these things that people are “ignoring” are things everyone knows by now. IR that allows the Gamepad as a TV remote is hardly a selling point, everyone knows that the hardware is a lot weaker, everyone knows that the Wii U will never have proper support, the games are 100% subjective and others are as much in the right, by default, in their personal preference.
The problem here is that you see the value and most others don’t, you consider this a lack of insight on their part while they see your preferences as unfounded compared to theirs, you somehow conclude that you have objective rights on your side because you enjoy the product yourself.
It’s perfectly acceptable that people have different tastes, but you can’t handle it, it seems, nor can you fathom that people feel differently. The whole concept of perceived value has completely passed you by, if your posts are anything to go by.
People don’t share your particular brand of perceived value and you lash out at them; they aren’t being ignorant or doing anything out of spite; they have different notions around perceived value of products.
“Problem is that people like you are failing to see the value... I would take Wii U any day over PlayStation 4 because the value is just too good to be true.”
What is that nonsense you told pezus in this thread? How is that not imposing your tastes as superior and attempting to trump other people’s subjective measure of value with your own?
It is also a self-defeating snippet; the second line kind of kills the sense in the first one.
I have right to change my opinion and estimations yet I don't do it in matters of seconds, minutes or few days like most people... I am not a flip flopper and ofcourse it changed when more information is available...
Have I said you don’t have a right to change your opinion? My main gripe with your brand of posting is that you’re so antagonistic and acidic and condescending in your tone and then you take a 180 degree turn a month later and it makes you look ridiculous. Look here at the thread in question (I recommend everyone in this thread take their time with this one):
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=175034&page=-1#1
Quite clearly hinging the entire “analysis” on Wii U Japan numbers, this is then used a springboard into wild speculation for global sales in 2014 that anyone could tell you (and indeed did tell you in that very thread) was way off and feverish at best.
You go on with the usual “but the PS3’s first year was terrible” argument, all the while ignoring the fact that the PS3 sold almost 8 million in its first full year on the market, compared to the Wii U’s 3.1 million.
You also impose the price before perceived value in this that thread as well, failing to see how important market perception is and you even go so far as to promote TV remote functionality as a selling point that will entice buyers, along with software and other features, into an 18 million best case scenario and a 12.5 million worst case scenario for the Wii U by the end of 2014.
Mario Kart 8 won't be out by March(sadly) and Super Smash Bros U estimated arrival is Q3/Q4. We don't know release date for a lot of software that is to be avaialbe in 2014 for Wii U. I expect a bit too much from Nintendo, I hoped they would do a good old barrage, rapid fire, "flamethrower" move...
You provide gems like this;
“Bayonetta 2 and Monolith Soft's X are huge also”
And then tell others how poor they are at factoring in system selling software in their hardware predictions and projections. In same post, you also tell another massive Wii U fan (yes, he is in fact a huge Nintendo fan) that; “Thus I am looking forward watching you eat crow meat”, at his notion that the Wii U could reach 12 million at best and that 11 million for the year is more likely in 2014, this was on December 28th 2013, no more than a month ago. Changing your mind is fine but this is ridiculous rationalization from you now.
There’s changing your mind and there’s changing your mind.
PS: Bayonetta 2 is very likely to be extremely niche on a platform like the Wii U, if it sells more than 300-400k; color me surprised.
“Your estimation is way too easy, it is nice for you for ignoring the power that exclusives that each console has, thus by your standard we should ignore all exclusives that each console has from our estimation. Good job for you.”
Another user challenges your 12.5 million worst case scenario and 18 million best case scenario. You also manage to make a complete straw man out of it. Not to mention the fact that your current numbers are more or less aligned with his at the time, are you “ignoring the power that exclusives that each console has” now?
Also putting my research as "research" makes you look silly since you didn't consider that more information is now avaialbe and that things are subjected to changes. As I said before, it is based on available information and now more informations are out.
There was plenty of information available at the time you made your previous prediction thread; there was not a single market indicator of anything being remotely close to your scenario in the near future.
You were, and still are, hinging most of the Wii U’ fortunes in 2014 on the software, this is largely unchanged on the current release schedule; if anything there are more titles announced now than when you made the ridiculous thread.
Or did these franchises suddenly lose their system selling capacity because Nintendo finally gave in and admitted they’re doing horribly? It was not big secret at the time.
You saw the Wii U have a decent holiday in Japan and then went overboard with glee, much like most other Wii U fans in here and you somehow imagined that the Wii U selling okay numbers in the one region where it still has no 8th gen competition due to a holiday boost was a sure sign of massive inbound sales for 2014.
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6030669
“Its not... Its global... Who cares about US anyway...?”
Yeah, who cares about the market that is currently responsible for about 40% of the Wii U’s lifetime and weekly numbers? You clearly have superior “analytical” skills.
Meanwhile, we kept on saying that this was a meaningless metric and that the fiscal projections, and by extension your predictions, were insanely unrealistic.
Just about the only thing that has changed from then until now is that Nintendo have come out and admitted and confirmed what was plain for all to see.
You basically went from 12.5 million worst case and 18 million best case scenario down to
8 million worst and 12 million best case in the span of one month and the only difference from then and now is that Nintendo have made official statements about what we all knew long before the holidays, you’ve quite simply made a spectacular fool of yourself by posting these two threads within such a short period of time.
You alterations could be rationalized over the course of, say, one whole year or so, but this is sheer and utter failure on your part and everyone can clearly see it.
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6030714
That is a 10 million difference, a margin of about 260% over the Wii U’s first full year in difference, in five weeks. This shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that you’re being ridiculous. You’re not being ridiculous with these recent numbers, but with the old ones and there was some fairly heavy use of words in that thread, you basically looked down on everyone who disagreed and more or less called them brainless and ignorant.
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5925228
Apparently, according to your own logic; you are discriminating the Wii U with your numbers. How about all those infidels in your December thread that “never learn”?
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5925256
Favorite quote: “You don't have an eye for detail to spot things and brain to connect the dots”, amazing stuff. You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Yeah, I’m gonna let that thread speak for itself. You need to either accept that this thread makes you look silly because of the other one or that that one makes you look even more silly due to this new one. Not only are you indeed a flip-flopper; you are a flip-flopper with a horrible attitude. Cheers!
