Do you think Nintendo should drop their whole Seniority system?

[Michael-5]

Wyrdness said:

Michael-5 said:

I disagree with you, 3D Worlds looks like an HD version of Super Mario 64/Super Mario 3D Land, it does not have the diversity of Yoshi's Island, Super Mario World, Super Mario 64 (when it first debuted it was big), and Galaxy. I agree with you Galaxy has diversity, but Galaxy 2 is more of the same. Never in Mario's history have 2 Mario games on the same console been so similar.

I'm not contradicting myself, you're just over-using Galaxy as an example. Super Mario Galaxy released 7 years ago, my arguement is that Nintendo nowadays has lost creativity, and it's apparent in Super Mario 3D Worlds with the cat suit. Galaxy was just a sign of things to come with the Bee suit really lacking inspiration.

Now see, you're confused because you're ignoring my arguement. Earlier you listed a bunch of Nintendo exclusives to point out how Nintendo still has creativity, but I showed you that of that list the only Nintendo developed games were Pikmin 3 and XenoBlade. Now you're doing it again listing Wonderful 101, a game not developed by Nintendo (also a flop both sales-wise and by score)

@Bold I 100% disagree. A lot of the IP's Nintendo released on the SNES and N64, never became staple franchises. Nintendo was putting more effort into making new IP's, new franchises, new characters, etc. Nowadays Nintendo isn't trying to make new games, they know Mario Kart and Smash Bros will sell, so they stick with pushing those. I mean Yoshi and Wario were created in the 90's, what other Mario franchise Mascot has spawned into their own series as of late? Yes Starfox Adventures was a nice and refreashing game, but why haven't we seen any more of that?

Also I disagree with you about level design, they are far less creative now then they were in the past. Take DKCR for instance, there isn't even a snow world with ice. NSMB for Wii was nice with tilting platforms based on how you tilted the Wii-mote, but what's come since then?

I think you're the misguided one. Nintendo keeps shoving you sequel after sequel, and it hasn't sunken into you yet, that most of the games coming out now are more of the same. How is Mario Kart Wii that different then Mario Kart DS? How is Super Mario 3D Land that different from Super Mario 64/Super Mario 3D Land. How is SSB Brawl that different from Melee? Even Skyward Sword, it's a fun game which takes advantage of Wii-mote functionality, but other then the controls, how is it that different from Wind Waker? Even games like Pikmin 3, and Luigi's Mansions, IP's which haven't seen a sequel in a decade, still feel largely the same.

You are contradicting yourself, in the very same post you contradicted your whole post and it was you yourself who initially brought up Galaxy, from what I've played 3DW uses all concepts of the franchises, your calling card in your argument "the catsuit" serves a more practical role in the game then Metal Mario and a large number of power ups could shake a stick at. Not having an ice level is a poor example of dismissing design creativity, we can go compare each level of the games now to the old ones and I'll highlight the design and concepts in the modern levels, we've moved on from just having worlds based on themes to focusing on just the levels themselves. Galaxy 2 is meant to be like Galaxy the clue is in the name, the concept Galaxy used has such a high potential that they were still creating levels in their spare time after Galaxy's release, as for never having two similar Marios on the same console SMB and the real actual SMB2 aka Lost Levels.

No you didn't show me anything all you did was be selective, opinionated and unclear in your argument then turn around and contradict yourself, the games I listed show not only that their first party are fine you've decided to try and side step them with vague arguments with out ever explaining why those games are not new experiences, at this point I don't even need to address the point as it's all over the shop and oopinionated. I'll give you an example of how selective and opinionated you're being by highlighting how you compared Wind Waker and SWS two games that are vastly different from each other with a few similarities as the games structures and approaches have major differences on top of their mechanics, you compare Brawl and Melee a comparison that would have hardcore Smash fans and pro players like M2K who frequent tournaments rip you to shreds as it's well known among them that Melee is more technical in it's mechanics while Brawl has a lower learning curve but better balance it's like saying Third Strike and SFIV are the same. The comparisons you've drawn up for you argument come out and say this is someone who just looks at the game on the surface and passes judgements on them in the vague manner you're putting them with little detail as to why.

A lot new IPs hit the Wii as well that aren't going to become franchises, like Takt, Dynamic Zan, Captain Rainbow and so on, I think you're not living in this world some what as now days it's a lot harder to introduce new mainstream characters as the market is very different. < Again none developed by Nintendo, and none that released outside of Japan...what that heck is Takt?

How am I contradicting myself? You claim I contradict myself, but provide no reasoning for it. You contradict yourself when you list games published by Nintendo as creative games by Nintendo, when they aren't developed by Nintendo....you did it again here!

You're looking into the catsuit way too much, look at the level design, the art-style, the gameplay mechanics. Super Mario 3D World is nothing more then Super Mario 64, take away the Castle overworld, and ad in co-op.

As for 2 Mario's releasing on the same console never appearing so similar, The Lost Levels was not released outside of Japan, and Super Mario Bros 2 was marketed as the sequel, which is a much much different game. You're grasping at straws here

Vague arguements? When talking about new games, all I did was eliminate games not developed by Nintendo from your list. Still a dozen points later, the only games you mentioned which were new experiences, either New IP's are very different games are Galaxy, Pikmin, and XenoBlade. If that's all Nintendo can come up with in a decade, that's nothing compared to the SNES era. Your only arguement is that SNES had more new IP's, more creativity in games because it was Nintendo's second console, so many idea's weren't touched yet.

However weather you see it or not, you agree with me. Nintendo used up most of their ideas during the SNES/N64 era and now produce far less new IP's, far less spin-off franchises, and introduce less new characters then previous games. Nintendo is out of ideas, that's why we see more of the same now. You said SM3DW utilizes game mechanics (and I assume level designs) similar to all previous Mario games, but what does it add? I mock the Cat-suit because that's the only notable feature that's different in SM3DW.

Skyward Sword and Wind Waker are not as vastly different as you credit them to be. Skyward Swords gameplay is much like a mix between Adult OoT/TP gameplay, and over the top looney gameplay from Wind Waker.

Brawl and Melee are similar, and yes I agree Melee is more technical, but the control layout, attacks, and mechanics are relatively unchainged. All they did was add those Super Skill things, and make things like dodging less a part of the game. Comparing Melee to Brawl is less extreme then comparing Street Fighter II to Super Street Fighter II. This isn't bias.

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The way I see it, is you look at little differences and think of them as huge changes, where I don't. I don't research games and look up all the features, I just play them. I've noticed that in recent year, Nintendo has been less creative then they have in the past, and pursued more "traditional" games to cut risks. Wind Waker was different and new, Skyward Sword was not. Galaxy I'll admit was different and new, but Galaxy 2 and Super Mario 3D World are not. Donkey Kong Country Returns is just DKC without Kremlings. Heck Yoshi Yarn is just Yoshi Story with yarn graphics, so also not different, and I haven't seen a new Mario Spinoff in over a decade, I wouldn't count hoops 3on3 or that Sport Mix developed by Square Enix.

This is nothing compared the the SNES and N64 era where Conker was created and given a bad ass game (Conkers Bad Fur Day), or when games like Mario Party, Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, and Paper Mario were created. Heck even new iterations of Mario Party & Mario RPG's fail to match the quality of the original 2 or 3 games.

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Nintendo needs to let some of the younger staff make their own games, their own IP's. I liked Ninja Theory's Metroid: Other M, but I want to see changed to Nintendo franchises this drastic to happen internally. If Pikmin is the only new IP Miyamoto can make in over 10 years, maybe he should let someone else make a new franchise?