Microsoft: Xbone Is 3x As Powerful Than X360 (Phil Spencer Twitter: It Was A Mistake)

[Michael-5]

HoloDust said:

Michael-5 said:

1) So I'm right when we talk about raw power, PS4 is about 10x as powerful as PS3, not up to 15x, or more powerful?

2) I don't undertand how the jump from XB1 to 360 is only 10x, when the GFLOPS diff is about 15x. I know you said I shouldn't use GFLOPs to measure, since stuff like shaders have improved drastically, but the lack of an improvement in shaders wouldn't make the performance jump smaller.

Either way, not worth arguing, you admit that in 4 years the graphical jump was more insane then current gen jump, and if I were to argue anything (why are we arguing about PS4's performance, we both agree 9/10x or so), that's my arguement. Also I would argue that we see less improvements with similar jumps in power because of dimishinging return. 600-6,000 polygons is noticable, but 60,000 to 600,000 polygons isn't really. PS4/One will look good because they can have so many objects on screen. Killzone for instance had a whole city rendered, well I would add.

3) Okay, makes sense, I read about those 8 CPU's, I didn't realize the 230GFLOPS value accounted for unused cells.

4) I follow you half way, LOL. You say I can't us GFLOPS to measure performance, but here you are calculating GFLOPs.

Where did you find out the number of unified shaders?

Also I'm not basing my comparisions on core clock speed. I said:

I didn't say it to downgrade PS4's performance, just to make a point that not everything on PS4 improved so drastically. I didn't say anything wrong, but people assumed I was implying something by saying that.

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Basically, what I've learnt from you is that you can't directly measure PS4's performance based off its specs. GFLOPS seems the best way to estimate a number (What's a better way?), but you need a raw benchmark because things like Memory Bandwidth, fill rate, and bus (something I know was PS2's bottleneck) affect performance. With consoles, you won't get that, since PS3/PS4 games run off 1 setting, where PC games can be altered.

Now I have a question, if Memory bandwidth is only a 5x improvement in the PS4 (38.4 -> 192 GB/s), will that hinder and help the PS4's performance? Is there a linear relationship, or exponential?

1) Yes, whole system is "at least 10x powerful as any current gen console" (Cerny on Jimmy Fallon's show)...GPU alone is more than 10x as powerful

2) Due to other specs not jumping as much (actually, most of them saw higher increase in this jump than in last) - though, tbh, PS3 to PS2 was much more radical jump than X360 to XBOX1. But yes, 10x in 8 years is not as impressive as 10x in 4 years, so I see why lot of people think it's not as big of a jump...16x overall performance would be much better, but that  would come with massive price and heating issues at this state of GPU tech (better CPU wouldn't hurt either).

BTW, Permalite made great post regarding some of the improvements in visuals we'll see in next-gen games - others include a lot better lighting/shadowing (that Deep Down demo), bigger worlds and better AI (hopefully - they've been promising this for years, but still FarCry 1 from 2004 has arguably  better AI than any modern FPS)

3) Yeah, usual mistake - people keep refining wiki though...not so long ago some really silly number stood in place of 176GFLOPS for RSX for example, glad someone with more knowledge changed it.

4) I was explaining you that core clock speed can't be used for comparisons alone without knowing what that core clock drives. So, if you know number of shaders/TMUs/ROPs and architecture you can make some educated guesses about performance based on that...of course, nothing beats real life benchmarks/aggregates.

 

As for memory bandwidth (btw, it's 22.4GB/s to 176GB/s), I gave you one good example (HD5550) how it affects overall performance when all other parameters are the same. Here's another one (7750 with same core clocks, one with 72GB/s bandwidth, other with 36GB/s):

http://ht4u.net/reviews/2012/msi_radeon_hd_7750_2gb_ddr3_test/index39.php&usg=ALkJrhi1G4TxkhzXnvN1ZfRJ3KdXukbpQQ?dummy=&advancedFilter=true&prod[]=AMD+Radeon+HD+7750+2GB+DDR3&prod[]=AMD+Radeon+HD+7750&filter[0][]=1680&filter[0][]=1920&filter[0][]=2560&filter[2][]=1&filter[2][]=2x2+SSAA&filter[2][]=2x2+SSAA+%2B+MLAA&filter[2][]=4&filter[2][]=8&filter[2][]=FXAA+-+hoch&filter[2][]=MLAA&filter[2][]=Post+AA&filter[3][]=16&aa=all

Again, Permalite made a good explanation on that.

1) Yea, but Microsoft also only say the One is 8-10x as powerful as the 360. I wouldn't go off what I heard in a show, I mean the title of this thread....

Pretty much everyone in this thread except CGI, and I guess you? believe it's around 10x. Read some of the comments between Pemalite and myself, 15x is way too high.

2) LOL well it's only fair to compare the most powerful systems of the gen. XB1 was the powerhouse last gen, PS3 is this gen, and PS4 will be next. If you compared PS3 to PS2 graphics, then the jump is 20x (since XB1 is 2x as powerful as PS2). So in the read world, since most people played PS2's, the jump from 6th -> 7th gen was twice as large, in half the time period.

Also I find it interesting how graphics will improve next gen. I'm looking very forward to flat textures disappearing , and better AI.

4) People extrapolated what I said, I only said that not everything in PS4 improved by 10x, GPU speed is only 3x, but this basically means nothing, since like Pemalite and you say, you don't know the number of shaders. Still, people took it as an offensive against the PS4, but it really wasn't. A lot of PS4 supporters are very defensive of their product.

Yup, I think this whole comparision between PS3/PS4 sprouted from nothing LOL. Wait, it sprouted from this comment, which was right in the end.

Michael-5 said:

superchunk said:
X360 * 2.5 = WiiU * 5 = Xbone * 1.5 = PS4

That's pretty much how I see it based on all the various specs. Of course if Xbone is downclocked... it might change a little.

In the end I don't think it will matter.

WiiU may get ignored just for being Nintendo and/or lack of DRM.
PS4/XB1 will have essentially identical 3rd party and that's over 90% of their games anyone cares about. WiiU's 3rd party ports will be close enough to not matter as well. Same game lower res/AA/etc.

XBone is about as powerful as PS4, and WiiU isn't that much more powerful then current gen consoles. Also PS4 is 9x more powerful then PS3, so if anything

X360 * 1.2 = PS3 * 1.4 = WiiU * 5.5 = XBOne * 1.15 = PS4.

I clearly underballed WiiU, more then anything, yet no one defends the WiiU. Shows you the difference between PS4 fans (blood thirsty animals) to WiiU fans.

P.S. not calling anyone a fanboy, you can love both the PS4/WiiU, but  I just find it funny that people who love the PS4 defend it so heavily over nothing, but WiiU gets people attacking it, like Captain_Tom saying KZ2 looks better then any WiiU game, and no one, but me defends it.

Sad sad times where there is so much Hate and misinformed people towards the WiiU