| room414 said: @kain_kusanagi Where did i say it was a disease? 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. 7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. Does that sound like taking back control? Why are you pretending you know what you're talking about? |
Yes, you didn't say disease, I did. Alcohol addiction is widely considered a disease. I brought it up because you brought up the 12-Step program. It is my opinion that addiction is not a disease. The physical and psychological effects of substance abuse is a symptom, but not of a disease you have no power fight against. They are the effects of a failure to make the correct choices in life. Like I said, I chose to not drink and therefore can never become an alcoholic. I chose never to smoke and therefore I will never be asked to stand out in the cold to get a fix. I made my choices just like everyone else. But for some reason addicts like to believe that they are a victim of a disease instead of a product of their own bad decisions.
Now as for your 12-Step examples.
Yes it all sounds like taking back control. Asking God or higher power or anyone for help is a choice. Making a decision to turn to God is a choice. Asking God to help become a better person is a choice. All of it is taking control back from the addiction. It's not giving up free will to God, it's are giving oneself to God. Those are very different. God gave free will and asks us to do good. Why are you pretending that everything is beyond control?
Besides, 12-Step programs have nothing to do with free will. Even if AA did believe we have no control over our lives, which it doesn't, it doesn't matter. AA or any organization that used the 12-Steps is not the authority of free will. You brought it up, I responded, but it doesn't really have anything to do with anything. Quoting an addict's program doesn't prove anything against free will.
