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kain_kusanagi on 11 August 2012
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room414 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
room414 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
room414 said:
kain_kusanagi said:

 

 

All those examples i gave were just to show you that you are NOT in control of your life. I'm not sure how anybody can argue with that but you've somehow managed to twist what i said into something completely different. 

Of course we have a will and we can make plenty of decisions and choices but have you ever noticed how life often sends you in the complete opposite direction of what you chose. You can call it fate, chance, the universe, god, satan, whatever you want but ultimately you have to recognize that there are other forces at work here and how powerless you are. 

If you think you are the master of your own fate you are badly deluded. 

Just because you don't have control over everything doesn't mean you can't control what matters. If you believe that your life is set and you can't change your path then YOU are the deluded one.

How would you ever know if you were changing your path or just following the one you were always meant to follow?

Easy, I don't believe in cosmic malarkey or quasi philosophical hokum.

You like bogus strawman arguments, here's you go: How do you know we aren't just some inter-dimensional monster's nightmare and if it wakes up we stop existing? Or maybe we are part of a simulation of an alien's computer designed to find the question to the answer 42. Those hold as much water as "you choice was already made for you and you can't tell."

What I do know is that if I decide to have a turkey sandwich for dinner instead of pizza it has more to do with a fear of heart disease than the Adjustment Bureau. None of us has any control over our genetics, but we do control how we treat our bodies. Event hose of us who were raised on McDonald's can decide to turn their life around and get health. There's isn't some destiny fairy puts a spell on us to force us to do what we wish we could avoid.

There are plenty of things that we can't control, but that doesn't mean we are powerless. Even if you think you have no good options you still can decide how you want to deal with it. Will you let life drag you down or will you make the best of your situation? Do you really believe life is futile?

"but we do control how we treat our bodies" 

Such a little thing and yet even with this the world is full of alcoholics, drug addicts, gluttons, anorexics etc. What would your advice be to them? Willpower?  Here's what a popular recovery program suggests with the first step of their program: 

Alcoholics, 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable. 

Drug addicts, 1.We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable. 

Overeaters, 1.We admitted we were powerless over food — that our lives had become unmanageable.     http://silkworth.net/aa/12steps.html   ( i'm not affiliated with or promoting 12 step programs. i just think they got this right)

"Do you really believe life is futile?"

You can try and control your circumstances and you might be given success for a time but ultimately something will always come up to show you that you're not really in control. The answer is letting go of control.  

You are fundamentally wrong on all accounts.

Addiction is not a disease no matter what people would like to believe to divert blame. Addicts become addicts through a  series of bad decisions. I've never had more than a sip of alcohol at any given time. I've never taken a drug of any kind outside of medication. I've never smoked a cigarette. I'm not even addicted to coffee like so many of my coworkers.

For alcohol I made a choice long ago. It was a personal choice, not based on religion or a family tragedy or anything like that. When I was 18 or 19 I noticed that the world would be a better place if people had never decided to alter their state of mind with drugs like alcohol or even the seemingly benign marijuana. Because I believe this,  I decided  it would be hypocrite of me to enjoy alcohol, even in moderation, while telling others they are abusing it. I took control. Why would I give my control to a glass of booze?  People think it's fun and it feels good, but it causes so much direct and indirect suffering. I find it disturbing that so many people think life would be bland without a bottle.

Addicts traded their control for a temporary high. They are not powerless, they just relinquished their power to a mindless drug. The fact that they can regain that power through an anti-addiction program is proof that we do have control over our lives even when it seems like we don't. 12-Step programs actually force people to take responsibility for their addiction. You are misunderstanding the intent of the "powerless" statement. It is not saying that we are powerless, it is saying that addicts have lost their power. The key to a 12-Step program is taking control back.

You say the answer is letting go of control. That is completely wrong. That's the kind of thing a drug user would say to justify their drug use. I say we should take more responsibility and exercise more direct control. We should plan ahead more and leave less to chance. We can't control everything, but would should never let go of that which we can control. That's the difference between humans and animals. We can choose to control what we can. Animals let go and live without any control.