room414 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
room414 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
room414 said:
You don't really believe you're in control do you? Master of your own fate? How much control did you have over your ethnicity, where you were born, your physical appearance, level of intelligence, athletic ability, how your parents raised you and the affect that had on you etc. etc. etc.? You think you're in control now? A little tragedy should change your mind. Spouse dies, illness, car crash, lost job because another employee had it in for you, some asshole shoots you in a theater etc. etc. etc. .
The truth is that we are completely at the mercy of forces beyond ourselves. It's a very difficult thing for the human ego to accept though so it deludes itself.
The rapist, like the rest of us, is at the mercy of theses forces but that doesn't justify his behavior or free him from the penalty of it. I kind of see it like cattle(or sheep and goats if you prefer) being herded. The cow can choose to stop and eat grass, it can go with the flow, it can even try to run away but ultimately it's destination is determined by the one doing the herding.
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Good grief, now that is some serious nonsense. Ethnicity, location, appearance, intelligence, abilities, upbringing, etc. may limit or expand your choices, but they don't replace free will. Yes there are forces beyond our control. That is as obvious to a child as it is to me and you. But we are fully responsible for the choices we make. We are not cattle, we don't just decide which way to move based on how hungry we are. We are presented with hundreds of choices a day and we make our decisions based on what we think is best in that situation. Our personal history gives us the knowledge we use to make those decisions.
Everybody seems to like simple examples. Ok here's one. A boy is born to a poor family in a poor community in a poor nation in Africa. At 10 years old his father is dead and is mother is sick and can't work to pay for medicine. He has no education. You might think he has no choice and is forced to either work or steal to provide for his family. But you would be wrong. He has many choices, good and bad. He could abandon his mother or find a mission to help. He could smoother her to death or pull her on a cart to a hospital and beg for help. He could pull her on a cart to another town and then to another until he reaches another country and so on until he reaches a nation with opportunities for a better future for himself and his mother who may or may not have survived the journey. There are so many factors that affect us, but they do not dictate us. We are free to choose.
Here's another one. A girl witnesses a bully force another boy to hand over his lunch money. The girl could try to intervene and stand up to the bully. Well that might be dangerous so maybe she could just tell on him. Or maybe she has defense training and feels confident. But if she did turn the bully in some people might make fun of her for being a snitch. Maybe she doesn't care what other people thinks. She could go up to the boy and give him advice on how to deal with bullies or share her lunch with the boy. She could tell her parents about it and ask what she should do if anything. She could start up an anti-bully student activist club that patrols the halls and alerts faculty. She could ignore it and go about her business like nothing happened. She could even think it's a good idea and bully other kids for their lunch money to make some money on the side.
We are not androids programmed to react only in one way. We are complex intelligent beings with souls. We choose to do what right or wrong. We are responsible for our actions. An abused child could grow up to abuse or council the abused or neither. Being abused is no excuse to abuse others. Free will is what makes us human beings. Animals may appear to be free, but they aren't making the kinds of complex decisions that we make. Choose what plant to eat is not the same as choose which restaurant to boycott.
We are free.
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All those examples i gave were just to show you that you are NOT in control of your life. I'm not sure how anybody can argue with that but you've somehow managed to twist what i said into something completely different.
Of course we have a will and we can make plenty of decisions and choices but have you ever noticed how life often sends you in the complete opposite direction of what you chose. You can call it fate, chance, the universe, god, satan, whatever you want but ultimately you have to recognize that there are other forces at work here and how powerless you are.
If you think you are the master of your own fate you are badly deluded.
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Just because you don't have control over everything doesn't mean you can't control what matters. If you believe that your life is set and you can't change your path then YOU are the deluded one.
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How would you ever know if you were changing your path or just following the one you were always meant to follow?
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Easy, I don't believe in cosmic malarkey or quasi philosophical hokum.
You like bogus strawman arguments, here's you go: How do you know we aren't just some inter-dimensional monster's nightmare and if it wakes up we stop existing? Or maybe we are part of a simulation of an alien's computer designed to find the question to the answer 42. Those hold as much water as "you choice was already made for you and you can't tell."
What I do know is that if I decide to have a turkey sandwich for dinner instead of pizza it has more to do with a fear of heart disease than the Adjustment Bureau. None of us has any control over our genetics, but we do control how we treat our bodies. Event hose of us who were raised on McDonald's can decide to turn their life around and get health. There's isn't some destiny fairy puts a spell on us to force us to do what we wish we could avoid.
There are plenty of things that we can't control, but that doesn't mean we are powerless. Even if you think you have no good options you still can decide how you want to deal with it. Will you let life drag you down or will you make the best of your situation? Do you really believe life is futile?
