Dark Knight Rises vs Dark Knight?

[vlad321]

d21lewis said:

vlad321 said:

pezus said:

vlad321 said:
Easily Avengers. Batman was absolutely fucking awesome and badass and everything. However Come on... All these themes were explored in Watchmen (book, but the movie too I guess). Superheroes that are mortal and not really super? What they would do to save people/punish evil doers (Let's face it Rorschach completely and UTTERLY obliterates Batman when it comes to this). It's just been explored and done before already. You want to make a serious movie that explores serious areas? Well prepare to be compared to other mediums as well then.

Meanwhile you have The Avengers. There are no themes, no motifs. There's just badassery, fucking aesome, fucking awesome badassery, etc. It also has a few laughs here and there. Also did I mention fucking awesome?

I don't see anything that even compares to the modern Batman films, however Avengers has been done before and that was called Thor, Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Hulk etc. 

So... Have you actually read Watchmen? Because, as I said, it basically explores the same areas as Batman, but better. Also not it hasn't. I remember a very distinct lack of Hulk in the Thor movie, and a sorely missing Thor in the Iron Man movie, etc.

So, are you talking about themes or characters or what?  Because I've read Watchmen and watched the movie and I didn't see Batman in either.  I didn't see an intimidating foe (Ozymandias was more of a "Phantom Menace"), a hero lose everything and everyone around him, or a city lose everything,  in Watchmen.  Yeah, Watchmen was about a bunch of heroes coming out of retirement and one of them having a scheme to unite the world but to say it explored everything that DKR did is just wrong.

Who had to overcome physical limitations in Watchment?  Who got raped in Batman?  Who was the person learning to become a hero in Watchmen?  Was Silk Spectre going through the same things as Catwoman? 

And you're comparing the Batman movie to the Watchmen comic?  Does that mean I can compare the Avengers movie to the first few issues of the JLA 1997?  A bunch of unique heroes coming together to topple an alien invasion?  Maybe WAtchmen DID do some things that Dark Knight Rises did but do you honestly think that the story in Avengers was something new and original?  Also, Batman was created in like 1939!  When did Watchmen come out?  If anything, the "Superhero that isn't really super" was something that Watchmen got from Batman and not the other way around!  Yeah, Watchmen kicked off an era of grittiness in the 80's but......let me calm down.

You're free to like what you like more but don't judge one movie by one standard and judge the other by a totally different standard. 

I also want to make a quick addendum to what I said before, and this will be much more spoiler-y.

 

With the "twist" that existed at the end of the movie, the reason for the extermination of so many people came down to "i have issues with you killing my daddy." Furthermore, the reason Batman ahd for saving Gotham was just along the lines of basically saying "nuh-uh, I can't hear you, lalalalalla."  There wasn't even a big Dr. Manhattan-like epiphany in the movie. The trilogy just delved more shallowly in these respects.