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happydolphin on 01 March 2012
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RolStoppable said:
happydolphin said:
RolStoppable said:

That's all fine and good, but you don't have to explain that to me. This point was part of a bigger argument:

happydolphin said:

1) If you deny the fact that the N64 released at a time where 3rd parties were yearning for another manufacturer to make consoles, and were sick and tired of Nintendo's 3rd party policies.

(...)

Then yes, probably you would argue that the N64/GC failure is rooted in the HW Interface and SW offerings.

And you basically agree with me. This thing just has gotten so big that some things were lost along the way. I wasn't arguing that third party games don't matter at all, just that they are not vital to Nintendo's success, hence why Nintendo themselves have to take the most blame for the N64 and GC failures.

Rol, yes promise we agree alot, but like arch said, it's not that 3rd parties don't matter and that Nintendo can fend for themselves. Way the opposite, 3rd parties are vital for this one thing: " you can't deny the importance of games like Metal Gear, Contra, Final Fantasy, etc. which were integral in keeping all eyes on the NES and away from the competition; everything was on the NES except for Sega's first party games."

Of course Nintendo can fend for itself just with 1st party offerings. Of course! But the danger is always present "How long will Mario sell? How long will Brain Age sell?"

When you have all your company files on a file repository, you NEED a backup just in case things go wrong. Nintendo's DR system is its relationship with 3rd parties. Its heart is its 1st party, its backup is its 3rd party relations. They need, vitally need to get that resolved. Where N64 failed, of course along with what you said granted a Blue Ocean strategy at the time of the N64 would have worked given all the other variables were in place (disks, good 3rd party relations, etc.). But to discount those variables and simply state that a blue ocean strategy would have been the be all end all is really really limited. Educated YES! I admire your getting into your books, I really do.

But ultimately, you really can't deny the importance of Nintendo's business mistakes at the beginning of gen 4, to the dismay of many a fan (myself included).

Listen, Arch's opinion is very similar to mine, he just has a much better memory of the events in gens 4 & 5 (I've watched him post). Though the arg is with me, you need to be able to address arch if you want to convince me too.

What exactly do I need to address? Archbrix said that the Gamecube ultimately failed due to a lack of differentiation and poor first party offerings. That was the main point you disagreed with.

I would never deny that third party exclusives on the NES sealed the system's ultimate victory over all possible competitors, but like Archbrix said, the NES was already successful before the huge wave of third party games arrived.

If things go wrong nowadays, third parties wouldn't be a viable backup plan. With everything being multiplatform, it's NIntendo who must deliver reasons why people should buy their system. If they fail to do that, then all third party games in the world are not going to help, because they are available everywhere else.

The danger with the Wii U is that Nintendo could believe that they can take it easy when they get full third party support. No. They need to work as hard as ever and they need to pack in a Wiimote and Nunchuk with every system to avoid a situation where people say that this Nintendo system isn't for them anymore. People left Nintendo before when they opted for complicated looking controllers (N64 and GC), they will do it again. And of course, Nintendo must continue to make games for these people.

By the way, N64 is fifth generation, GC is sixth. Not the first time you got that wrong today.

Lastly, thanks for the kind words in your following post. It's nice to see you stop siding with Joelcool7's line of thinking (I know he isn't here, but he has a lot of things backwards). Canadian solidarity and patriotism should only go so far.

@bold. You are one clever puppy. That is the only part of his post I disagreed with. But your post addressed it already fairly well (2 players per cart!). Then again, Nintendo goes back to its roots and that's the way to go. So, remembering your prior post, you are looking for a specific type of differentiation (like you said new concepts -> New IPs, not just new in old clothes, I get that). Then again, easy position to take. A game goes bad "Oh, bad differentiation!", but a game like Galaxy does well for its suit, and "That was true to its roots". Though I agree Sunshine was WACKED, it was an excellent game. It did alienate me personally tough, so did DD.

@3rd parties on NES. So true, but do you realize what a boon they were to the PS1 platform? To 3rd parties?? Their importance varies form era to era.

@Backup viability. And why not? of course it depends where you are within a gen, but say Sony had stopped releasing 1st party PS1 games in 1998, would it have really mattered? No. Once you have the install base established, it's over.

@Resting on your laurels. Of course I don't advocate that. That's like basing everything on your backup solution. Not good. And for the bundled WiiChuck I agree with you.

@Gen count. You know what I meant. OK 5th gen for N64, 6th for Cube, oki. After all the more important things you got wrong in general here, pfff this is nothing. Anyways we aren't here to measure who's right and who's wrong, but just in case.

@Kind words. Geez you're my friend man. Joel is a great poster, sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I really don't (the last Mario thread should have proven that to you). It's not cause I'm Canadian that I am like Joel? That's crazy thinking! Some other people on this forum I associate so much to, but are from very different parts of the world (you included). I'm so upset you had that wrong man.