By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
happydolphin on 01 March 2012
Edit Thread
RolStoppable said:
happydolphin said:

1) If you deny the fact that the N64 released at a time where 3rd parties were yearning for another manufacturer to make consoles, and were sick and tired of Nintendo's 3rd party policies.

2) If you deny the fact that Sega portrayed the Nintendo systems as kiddy and Sony piggybacked on that.

3) If you deny the fact that the N64 sported cartridges, while the Playstation and Saturn supported disk-based media.

4) If you deny the importance of FFVII as an exclusive to PS.

5) If you deny the piracy that helps propel the Playstation and drive it into many people's homes.

6) If you deny that the Gamecube came out during the Playstation's prime.

Then yes, probably you would argue that the N64/GC failure is rooted in the HW Interface and SW offerings.

 

7) And also, was the PS2 traditional or something else, according to your definition?

1) Also applies to the Wii which was successful regardless.

2) Also applies to the Wii (Sony and Microsoft in this case) which was successful regardless. Although this time around the casual image got added on top, so the badmouthing has become worse.

3) The Gamecube fixed this problem and did worse than the Nintendo 64.

4) Also applies to the Wii which was successful regardless. Virtually all major third party games were not available on the Wii.

5) Software sales of the PlayStation far outpaced the Nintendo 64, so piracy is really a poor excuse.

6) Also applies to the Wii which was successful regardless.

You see, I don't have to deny anything, that's why I can say with certainty that the N64 and GC failed on their own merits. This is why it is such an unsettling truth.

7) Sony started from zero, so whatever they did with the PS1 would equal their tradition. The PS2 continued what the PS1 started, so the PS2 is a traditional console in Sony's context. Perhaps this is where all the confusion nowadays comes from. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft do not have the same values, but many people assume they are all the same, so when Nintendo does things differently, it's considered wrong, even though it's actually the right path to take for them. Sony and Microsoft are pretty much the same, because Microsoft's consoles have been tailored to do the same as Sony's, but better. But Nintendo competing on the same terms clashes with their own tradition which is why they should avoid symmetrical competition with Sony and Microsoft. Note that this also holds true the other way around.

Eesh, Rol. This is so upside down. I'll give it a chance, but I'm fairly confident in my position this time, let's try to clarify the terms and ensure we are talking about the same thing (especially point 7!).

1) No, 1 does not apply to gen 7. It does to a very small extent, but not nearly as reactively as in gen 5. What it takes to topple a market leader, gen 7 should help you figure that out. I think your over-confidence is blinding you.

2) Yes, but the harm is already done. Basically from here on out, you are simply supporting the fact that the Wii was successful thanks to the blue ocean, while presuming that was a return to roots. What you're missing is that Nintendo got BOOTED OUT of the hobbyist gamer space. That was its turf (along with casual offerings) at the time of the NES. You'll say by default, but the SNES kept a good hold on that segment despite serious competition.

3) The harm was already done.

4) Not to that extent! And compare the quality.

Top playstation games - Mostly Japanese releases:

PosGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Gran Turismo PS 1997 Racing Sony Computer Entertainment 4.22 3.87 2.54 0.52 11.15
2 Final Fantasy VII PS 1997 Role-Playing Sony Computer Entertainment 3.01 2.47 3.28 0.96 9.72
3 Gran Turismo 2 PS 1999 Racing Sony Computer Entertainment 3.88 3.29 1.69 0.50 9.36
4 Final Fantasy VIII PS 1999 Role-Playing Square 2.28 1.72 3.63 0.23 7.86
5 Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back PS 1997 Platform Sony Computer Entertainment 3.78 2.17 1.31 0.31 7.58
6 Tekken 3 PS 1998 Fighting Sony Computer Entertainment 3.27 2.22 1.40 0.29 7.16
7 Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped PS 1998 Platform Sony Computer Entertainment 3.68 1.75 1.42 0.28 7.13
8 Crash Bandicoot PS 1996 Platform Sony Computer Entertainment 3.23 2.35 0.94 0.30 6.82
9 Driver PS 1999 Action GT Interactive 3.11 2.80 0.02 0.33 6.27
10 Metal Gear Solid PS 1998 Action Konami 3.18 1.83 0.78 0.24 6.03
11 Resident Evil 2 PS 1998 Action Virgin Interactive 1.88 1.47 2.02 0.45 5.82
12 Tekken 2 PS 1996 Fighting Sony Computer Entertainment 2.26 1.89 1.36 0.23 5.74
13 Final Fantasy IX PS 2000 Role-Playing Square 1.62 0.77 2.78 0.14 5.30
14 Tomb Raider II PS 1997 Adventure Eidos Interactive 2.30 2.46 0.20 0.28 5.24
15 Resident Evil PS 1996 Action Virgin Interactive 2.05 1.16 1.11 0.73 5.05
16 Tony Hawk's Pro Skater PS 1999 Sports Activision 3.42 1.38 0.02 0.20 5.02

PS3 - Mostly western releases:

PosGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Call of Duty: Black Ops PS3 2010 Shooter Activision 5.45 3.70 0.40 1.68 11.23
2 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 PS3 2011 Shooter Activision 4.81 3.91 0.36 1.70 10.78
3 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 PS3 2009 Shooter Activision 4.75 3.21 0.37 1.47 9.81
4 Grand Theft Auto IV PS3 2008 Action Take-Two Interactive 3.97 3.19 0.39 1.40 8.95
5 Gran Turismo 5 PS3 2010 Racing Sony Computer Entertainment 1.76 3.49 0.68 1.31 7.24
6 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare PS3 2007 Shooter Activision 2.79 2.05 0.28 0.94 6.05
7 Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots PS3 2008 Action Konami 2.47 1.51 0.83 0.75 5.57
8 Uncharted 2: Among Thieves PS3 2009 Action Sony Computer Entertainment 2.61 1.82 0.19 0.84 5.47
9 FIFA Soccer 12 PS3 2011 Sports Electronic Arts 0.60 3.39 0.07 1.18 5.25
10 Assassin's Creed II PS3 2009 Action Ubisoft 2.09 1.81 0.21 0.79 4.89
11 LittleBigPlanet PS3 2008 Platform Sony Computer Entertainment 2.42 1.51 0.17 0.73 4.83
12 Call of Duty: World at War PS3 2008 Shooter Activision 2.42 1.64 0.00 0.74 4.80

(Important point here, most sold equal sales on the X360, which proves that had Wii had graphical parity, it would also have had these kinds of sales, unless some kind of marketing abomination re-occured. The same can't be said for those generally japanese PS exclusive games.)

5) That tie ratio is despite piracy. We all remember the mod chips, most people had one.

6) Not at all, the Wii succeeded where the PS3 tumbled.

7) Define traditional, in the sense you very first meant it. What did it mean at the time of NES? Now I would appreciate if you were specific about what your terms mean in their respective contexts, because I suspect we're comparing apples to oranges for the sake of somebody winning the argument (which is not the point).

"destruction of the original values" Please clarify. And also distinguish Sony's PS/PS2 direction from the N64/Gamecube direction  (I don't see it), as well as do distinguish the NES/SNES vs N64/Gamecube strategies. And please, if you're going to say 2D Mario vs 3D Mario, just save it. If you're going to say something more along the lines of appealing to a broader audience than to a niche base, then I'd like to hear it.