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Forums - Sales Discussion - When does Sony reach the point of no return in Japan?

javidaco said:

Everybody talks about that there are no games for the PS3, that surprises me, at least you have 4 or 5 excellent games, on the Wii you don't have even one, I know what you are thinking, what about Zelda, well I think Zelda was not that good and I would play Ocarina over and over again and not this one.

The real next gen war is between PS3 and 360, the Wii is not a next gen console, it's something different but not a next gen console.

Personally I own all 3 systems and I prefer the 360, the games are amazing.

 


I don't think there is much doubt that the PS3 has recieved more "better" games than the Wii has at this point but this doesn't mean that the Wii has no good games (I think Zelda and Wii Sports are very good, as is Madden). Personaly, I noticed that it seems like the comment that the PS3 has no games more often comes from PS3 fans when they say "The PS3 is still selling well for a system that has no games!"

The truth is that the Wii is in competition with the PS3 and XBox 360 regardless of whether they accept it or not; there are limited resources (gamer time and money, and development resources) which can be alocated to each of these systems. Even if you claim that these are two seperate markets it would seem like Nintendo split the market unevenly and took the lion's share for themself.



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javidaco said:

Everybody talks about that there are no games for the PS3, that surprises me, at least you have 4 or 5 excellent games, on the Wii you don't have even one, I know what you are thinking, what about Zelda, well I think Zelda was not that good and I would play Ocarina over and over again and not this one.

The real next gen war is between PS3 and 360, the Wii is not a next gen console, it's something different but not a next gen console.

Personally I own all 3 systems and I prefer the 360, the games are amazing.

 

So you mean that they have 4-5 great games and their sales still sucks?

 



 

 

Buy it and pray to the gods of Sigs: Naznatips!

HappySqurriel said:
javidaco said:

Everybody talks about that there are no games for the PS3, that surprises me, at least you have 4 or 5 excellent games, on the Wii you don't have even one, I know what you are thinking, what about Zelda, well I think Zelda was not that good and I would play Ocarina over and over again and not this one.

The real next gen war is between PS3 and 360, the Wii is not a next gen console, it's something different but not a next gen console.

Personally I own all 3 systems and I prefer the 360, the games are amazing.

 


I don't think there is much doubt that the PS3 has recieved more "better" games than the Wii has at this point but this doesn't mean that the Wii has no good games (I think Zelda and Wii Sports are very good, as is Madden). Personaly, I noticed that it seems like the comment that the PS3 has no games more often comes from PS3 fans when they say "The PS3 is still selling well for a system that has no games!"

The truth is that the Wii is in competition with the PS3 and XBox 360 regardless of whether they accept it or not; there are limited resources (gamer time and money, and development resources) which can be alocated to each of these systems. Even if you claim that these are two seperate markets it would seem like Nintendo split the market unevenly and took the lion's share for themself.


Yeah, I never thought about like that but, they are in competition because when big name third parties assign teams to make games for the Wii, those were teams that could be working on PS360 games, so even if you say Nintendo's no competing with them they are taking some of their resources away.



 

  

 

Well, in theory, if Nintendo is truly expanding the gaming market and bringing in new gamers, then that's adding money to the market which eventually gets funneled out to the developers who hire additional development teams to work on the new market.

Of course, if instead, Nintendo is just re-capturing a lot of the PS2 userbase, then the games will be shifting over from there.



DKII said:

Well, in theory, if Nintendo is truly expanding the gaming market and bringing in new gamers, then that's adding money to the market which eventually gets funneled out to the developers who hire additional development teams to work on the new market.

Of course, if instead, Nintendo is just re-capturing a lot of the PS2 userbase, then the games will be shifting over from there.


 And if they are doing both?



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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I would never count a games hardware manufacturer out or past the point of no return! Just look at all the people who said GameCube was the point of no return for Nintendo. Nintendo actually maintained profits and remained the most profitable hardware first party in the industry.

 

As for the immediate future (4th Generation) I'd say Sony's passing that point right now. The PlayStation Portable is being outsold 3 to 1 thats no just getting beat thats getting owned.  Sony's PlayStation3 is failing to over take Nintendo's Wii in all parts of the globe including Europe where Sony expected take the market by storm.

 

A price cut in the immediate future could turn things around a bit but price cuts are a slippery slope once you've cut your expected to keep cutting. Look at PSP V.S DS, PS recieved price cut early on and look today its selling like 129.99-199.99CDN but initially it was priced at 299CDN compared to DS who started off at 189.99CDN and two years later is priced  at 169.99! So Sony cut over 100$ of possible profits off of their hardware while Nintendo managed to only cut 20$. 

 

Sony started this generation with an over powered piece of hardware. The PS3 was built far too powerfull. Estimates put Sony at a 300USD loss for every unit at their huge price point. But now they plan to cut the price another 100$ that would mean a 400$ loss on every unit sold. While estimates place Nintendo's Wii at a 170$ manufacturing price which means roughly 100USD profit on every unit sold a major bonus when both your competitors are loosing money on their hardware.

 In Japan Sony isn't loosing entirely just the way GameCube was loosing to PS2, its not going to die its just going to take some heavy blows in Japanese consumer support. The real point of no return is if Sony throws in the towel (Nintendo was in the same position and chose to stick it out) but will Sony?



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

Joelcool7 said:

I would never count a games hardware manufacturer out or past the point of no return! Just look at all the people who said GameCube was the point of no return for Nintendo. Nintendo actually maintained profits and remained the most profitable hardware first party in the industry.

 

As for the immediate future (4th Generation) I'd say Sony's passing that point right now. The PlayStation Portable is being outsold 3 to 1 thats no just getting beat thats getting owned. Sony's PlayStation3 is failing to over take Nintendo's Wii in all parts of the globe including Europe where Sony expected take the market by storm.

 

A price cut in the immediate future could turn things around a bit but price cuts are a slippery slope once you've cut your expected to keep cutting. Look at PSP V.S DS, PS recieved price cut early on and look today its selling like 129.99-199.99CDN but initially it was priced at 299CDN compared to DS who started off at 189.99CDN and two years later is priced at 169.99! So Sony cut over 100$ of possible profits off of their hardware while Nintendo managed to only cut 20$.

 

Sony started this generation with an over powered piece of hardware. The PS3 was built far too powerfull. Estimates put Sony at a 300USD loss for every unit at their huge price point. But now they plan to cut the price another 100$ that would mean a 400$ loss on every unit sold. While estimates place Nintendo's Wii at a 170$ manufacturing price which means roughly 100USD profit on every unit sold a major bonus when both your competitors are loosing money on their hardware.

In Japan Sony isn't loosing entirely just the way GameCube was loosing to PS2, its not going to die its just going to take some heavy blows in Japanese consumer support. The real point of no return is if Sony throws in the towel (Nintendo was in the same position and chose to stick it out) but will Sony?


 Nintendo only "managed" to cut $20?  Nintendo only wanted to.  DSs still sell like crazy...they're worth the price they're selling for...there's not a huge reason or demand to lower the price anymore.  Slashing prices on something like the PSP is not neccessarily something to boast.  And since when do they plan to cut the price of the PS3 at all, let alone a whopping $100??



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

I agree that the PS3 will do better than the Gamecube in Japan....eventually. But for now it is falling farther and farther behind the Gamecube's hardware and software sales in japan during the same post-release sales charts. And it shows no signs of starting to improve before June at the possible earliest.



Nobody is crazy enough to accuse me of being sane.

BenKenobi88 said:
Joelcool7 said:

 

A price cut in the immediate future could turn things around a bit but price cuts are a slippery slope once you've cut your expected to keep cutting. Look at PSP V.S DS, PS recieved price cut early on and look today its selling like 129.99-199.99CDN but initially it was priced at 299CDN compared to DS who started off at 189.99CDN and two years later is priced at 169.99! So Sony cut over 100$ of possible profits off of their hardware while Nintendo managed to only cut 20$.

 


Nintendo only "managed" to cut $20? Nintendo only wanted to. DSs still sell like crazy...they're worth the price they're selling for...there's not a huge reason or demand to lower the price anymore. Slashing prices on something like the PSP is not neccessarily something to boast. And since when do they plan to cut the price of the PS3 at all, let alone a whopping $100??


 Yo took my words out of context, I stated Nintendo managed to only cut 20$ from its price tag. In other words while Sony had to cut over 100USD to keep its PSP selling Nintendo only cut 20$ and Idoubt they really had to I feel the system would likely still be selling just as strong without the 20CDN price cut.

 

Sony of Europe has been talking about cutting the price rescently and many industry analysts have talked about a 100$ price cut as probable. It seems fairly likely that they will take this course of action if hardware sales don't start picking up. Infact at my local FutureShop PS3's are sitting on shelves today their was about as many PS3's as their were 360's and I live in a city with almost 200,000 people! This week Sony's sales dropped in Europe by over 80% that is a major drop considering the console debuted what a week ago! A 100$ price cut is fairly plausable and likely! 



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

Alright, sorry...I was just a bit confused.



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )