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Arcade gaming future, reality or wishful thinking? not casual games

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Arcade gaming future, reality or wishful thinking? not casual games

yushire said:
c0rd said:

Most people aren't buying Call of Duty for the epic singleplayer campaigns, though. They're buying it for the multiplayer.

The online multiplayer in Call of Duty isn't unlike an arcade experience. There's constant action, competition with other people, it's addictive, and relatively pick up and play (it's at least the easiest shooter out there). The core gameplay is simple enough - point and shoot.

Nearly all the best selling games this gen have some sort of arcade gameplay. There are exceptions, of course, but most of them are games that generally fill a very broad job. Nintendogs is a pet simulator, Brain Age "keeps your brain active," Wii Fit motivates you to excercise, etc. The gameplay for these games isn't so important, so much as the job they're fulfilling.

As for the blog you linked, he gives some terrible examples. His blaming KQ6's failure on arcade-action is unfounded, then he goes as far as to use VGC's data on Zelda (aLttP) against Layton, when we only have Japan data for Zelda. Against 2D Zelda, Layton was outsold in Japan and is absolutely killed in America, Others is the only region in question (which Nintendo hadn't gotten hold of until recently). He points to games like Phoenix Wright as proof of satisfied customers, when it sells like peanuts, then somehow concludes "puzzles and stories" being more universal than "weapons and enemies", which he has no proof of. Sales say otherwise.


Note that there are really two different kinds of "puzzle" games, one being far more popular than the other. There's the "action" type, which is based on quick thinking, as it basically gives you a task to figure out in given a time limit. See Tetris, Bejeweled, Brain Age, etc. Basically the best selling puzzle games, all of which actually do have arcade-like gameplay.

Then there's the slower, type, where you can take all day to figure out. These are not as popular, and seem to be the stuff the blogger is promoting, as they're loaded in the story games (Layton, Phoenix Wright, etc).

 

I've played COD WAW and MW reflex online multiplayer awhile ago and thinking if this is what the casual gamer wants in FPS and... NO. The multiplayer aspect isnt what the casual wants. Most casuals aka ordinary people arent competitive in nature especially on things that they think is not important or shouldnt excel about like playing video games, which ironically arcade games falls into. Most gamers before competes with the highest score with change in gaming it shifts to leagues and online gaming especially in FPS. The reason why some casuals like FPS games arent the multiplayer aspect and the arcade gameplay to it more than that its the co op and botst. Thats why Malstrom dont like online. He knew all along even online gaming in FPS was pure arcade gaming in  his standards he just dont like it. Because thats not what ordinary people wants in a FPS. Anyway I explain this later when someone replied because its too long to explain it fully.  BTW I make opinions on my own experience and I analyzed gamer's behavior on our area and its always the same thing. Casuals just dont like online.

I'm not sure who you're referring to when you talk about these "casual" gamers. However, I do know that the vast majority of people that buy CoD or Halo play it for the online multiplayer. The online stats say so. Over 8 million first week is even higher than we have PS360's first week on VGC (PC gamers help out here).

Arcade games are not all about competition, either. They're simply about pick up and play fun. When I used to go to the arcades to play games like TMNT, X-men, or Time Crisis, getting the high score was the furthest thing from my mind. You just play the game to have a good time. When Pac-Man exploded in the US, it wasn't because all the women were trying to beat each other's high scores. At least I don't think...

Anyway, I'd agree if you said many people don't like online. However, that doesn't apply to the Call of Duty / Halo crowd, because the online stats tell us that most of them do.


I'm not sure what your last response meant. Are you saying arcade style games are dying out? They're the type of games that have been dominating this gen.



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c0rd said:
yushire said:
c0rd said:

Most people aren't buying Call of Duty for the epic singleplayer campaigns, though. They're buying it for the multiplayer.

The online multiplayer in Call of Duty isn't unlike an arcade experience. There's constant action, competition with other people, it's addictive, and relatively pick up and play (it's at least the easiest shooter out there). The core gameplay is simple enough - point and shoot.

Nearly all the best selling games this gen have some sort of arcade gameplay. There are exceptions, of course, but most of them are games that generally fill a very broad job. Nintendogs is a pet simulator, Brain Age "keeps your brain active," Wii Fit motivates you to excercise, etc. The gameplay for these games isn't so important, so much as the job they're fulfilling.

As for the blog you linked, he gives some terrible examples. His blaming KQ6's failure on arcade-action is unfounded, then he goes as far as to use VGC's data on Zelda (aLttP) against Layton, when we only have Japan data for Zelda. Against 2D Zelda, Layton was outsold in Japan and is absolutely killed in America, Others is the only region in question (which Nintendo hadn't gotten hold of until recently). He points to games like Phoenix Wright as proof of satisfied customers, when it sells like peanuts, then somehow concludes "puzzles and stories" being more universal than "weapons and enemies", which he has no proof of. Sales say otherwise.


Note that there are really two different kinds of "puzzle" games, one being far more popular than the other. There's the "action" type, which is based on quick thinking, as it basically gives you a task to figure out in given a time limit. See Tetris, Bejeweled, Brain Age, etc. Basically the best selling puzzle games, all of which actually do have arcade-like gameplay.

Then there's the slower, type, where you can take all day to figure out. These are not as popular, and seem to be the stuff the blogger is promoting, as they're loaded in the story games (Layton, Phoenix Wright, etc).

 

I've played COD WAW and MW reflex online multiplayer awhile ago and thinking if this is what the casual gamer wants in FPS and... NO. The multiplayer aspect isnt what the casual wants. Most casuals aka ordinary people arent competitive in nature especially on things that they think is not important or shouldnt excel about like playing video games, which ironically arcade games falls into. Most gamers before competes with the highest score with change in gaming it shifts to leagues and online gaming especially in FPS. The reason why some casuals like FPS games arent the multiplayer aspect and the arcade gameplay to it more than that its the co op and botst. Thats why Malstrom dont like online. He knew all along even online gaming in FPS was pure arcade gaming in  his standards he just dont like it. Because thats not what ordinary people wants in a FPS. Anyway I explain this later when someone replied because its too long to explain it fully.  BTW I make opinions on my own experience and I analyzed gamer's behavior on our area and its always the same thing. Casuals just dont like online.

I'm not sure who you're referring to when you talk about these "casual" gamers. However, I do know that the vast majority of people that buy CoD or Halo play it for the online multiplayer. The online stats say so. Over 8 million first week is even higher than we have PS360's first week on VGC (PC gamers help out here).

 

 

 

 

According to Iwata in this conference, 295 million people in western countries and Japan alone, and 149 million people more on potential gamers. A statistic dwarfed even Halo and COD online players.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_HfafAqMX0&feature=related

 

 

Theres a reason why core gamers are dying, and its not even Malstrom can comprehend. Anyway I admit Im playing COD WAW and MW reflex now and I enjoyed it, but not because I like to play COD games because of multiplayer. I bought COD WAW and MW reflex because of the singleplayer aspect of it even though its short, at least its enjoyable. Im playing the multiplayer now because I have yet to buy We Cheer 2, a game concept even 3rd parties wants to ignore. From the reviews We Cheer sucks, but with the reviews on We Cheer 2 now the control scheme seem improved thats why I want to buy it but the game seem rare these days. I cant find it. its too rare that even torrent and pirate sites have no available torrent for this game(Im not encouraging this though). YEAH, this game will become a collector's item few years to come.



end of core gaming days prediction:

 

E3 2006-The beginning of the end. Wii introduced

 

E3 2008- Armageddon. Wii motion plus introduced. Wii Music. Reggie says Animal crossing was a core game. Massive disappointment. many Wii core gamers selling their Wii.

 

E3 2010- Tape runs out

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2009/ICG_Tape_runs_out.jpg

yushire said:
yeah we knew arcades have similarities with casual games BUT... if you seen the technologies of videogame cnsoles then and today we all know why videogames at that time kept simple and sometimes repititive and addictive at the same time.


I doubt no one can do a epic singleplayer campaign of Medal of Honor and Call of Duty during the NES or even the SNES times. Arcades and core singleplayer experience are same addictive but at the same time different

It wasn't just technology. The ease of play and addictiveness was meant to draw people in. When somebody put in a quarter, the last thing they'd want to do is to have to learn to play the game. It was vital to make sure an arcade game was instantly playable and that the gameplay was instantly recognizable. Otherwise the player might just quit on the continue screen and find another machine.

This is still very noticable at modern arcades (yes they still do exist, probably at your local bowling alley). The most popular games are always driving, light-gun shooting, or any kind of interactive machine not unlike the Wii (DDR, Snowboarding, Boxing, etc.)



mortono said:
yushire said:
yeah we knew arcades have similarities with casual games BUT... if you seen the technologies of videogame cnsoles then and today we all know why videogames at that time kept simple and sometimes repititive and addictive at the same time.


I doubt no one can do a epic singleplayer campaign of Medal of Honor and Call of Duty during the NES or even the SNES times. Arcades and core singleplayer experience are same addictive but at the same time different

It wasn't just technology. The ease of play and addictiveness was meant to draw people in. When somebody put in a quarter, the last thing they'd want to do is to have to learn to play the game. It was vital to make sure an arcade game was instantly playable and that the gameplay was instantly recognizable. Otherwise the player might just quit on the continue screen and find another machine.

This is still very noticable at modern arcades (yes they still do exist, probably at your local bowling alley). The most popular games are always driving, light-gun shooting, or any kind of interactive machine not unlike the Wii (DDR, Snowboarding, Boxing, etc.)

 

 

Well lets put it this way, if game companies follows Malstrom's suggestion then we never seen this kind of game AGAIN FOREVER:

 

 

http://www.gamenewsdirectory.com/news-details/322397-news-red-steel-2-gameplay-video

 

 

DO YOU WANT THAT?



end of core gaming days prediction:

 

E3 2006-The beginning of the end. Wii introduced

 

E3 2008- Armageddon. Wii motion plus introduced. Wii Music. Reggie says Animal crossing was a core game. Massive disappointment. many Wii core gamers selling their Wii.

 

E3 2010- Tape runs out

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2009/ICG_Tape_runs_out.jpg

"Well lets put it this way, if game companies follows Malstrom's suggestion then we never seen this kind of game AGAIN FOREVER:"

He didn't write anything resembling "no FPS". He even notes some games like Doom among the great games. He would just want more pick-up-and-play to it. Try again, like with Heavy Rain.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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LordTheNightKnight said:
"Well lets put it this way, if game companies follows Malstrom's suggestion then we never seen this kind of game AGAIN FOREVER:"

He didn't write anything resembling "no FPS". He even notes some games like Doom among the great games. He would just want more pick-up-and-play to it. Try again, like with Heavy Rain.

 

 

The question WAS... are there games on retail today that are pick up and play to begin with? Except for flash games and casual games such as WSR and Wii sports and NSMB Wii? Lets think about this for a moment, are anyone here wants to play FPS games by online and local multiplayer alone? I doubt it. You want to feel that you're in part of the game even the casuals aka ordinary people. Video games are active past time not passive past time unlike TVs and radios but it certainly still a past time. Thats why facebook games are popular. And its not the definition of an arcade game unlike on Y8 and other flash games. 

 

Most games today even the likes of God of War, gears of War, COD 4, even Assasin's Creed 2 have core gameplay mechanics attached to it. Even on singleplayer, yeah there are cutscenes and dialogs and texts and tutorials but its not overdone as FFX, Xenosaga series and MGS4. What Malstrom implying about high budget games making blockbuster games just as like modeled in Hollywood WAS BAD, but epic singleplayer campaigns with added multiplayer in COD 4. Whats bad about it?

 

For one thing, cutscenes in COD and MOH series arent important and you wont missed much since the story isnt good to begin with so you can skip it. The good thing about those series was the singleplayer campaign like you're a part of it. I KNOW, Malstrom dont like the idea. But again, lets think about this for a moment is that what happened to us when we are a kid when we're playing Mario, castlevania or Megaman on the NES? What Malstrom really whining about all along on his blogs? Thats why he is disappointed with WSR, Wii Sports, Wii Play, etc... because theres "no content to it?" But in reality, he was longing for Gears of War and COD experience on the Wii too? Again lets think this for a moment. The real problem with games today are the excessive cost in development and advertising I doubt theres nothing wrong with the gameplay at all and we should go back to the arcade roots. Do you all think developers wants heavy rain  gameplay?

 

The real content was make video games new again, just like on the NES times. Without developers making the same shooters, JRPGs and action games over and over. And its possible with the Wii and motion controls. Not making games back to basic it would lead us to video game crash sooner than expected.



end of core gaming days prediction:

 

E3 2006-The beginning of the end. Wii introduced

 

E3 2008- Armageddon. Wii motion plus introduced. Wii Music. Reggie says Animal crossing was a core game. Massive disappointment. many Wii core gamers selling their Wii.

 

E3 2010- Tape runs out

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2009/ICG_Tape_runs_out.jpg

Where does it say pickup FPS has to be multiplayer? Just because current single player design doesn't go that way doesn't mean it can't be done.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

LordTheNightKnight said:
Where does it say pickup FPS has to be multiplayer? Just because current single player design doesn't go that way doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

If you've played any MOH and COD games it cant be done. Most of what you do there are mostly scripted its not like Doom and Quake that you just flipping switches and kill all the stuff that moves. Even though that kind of gameplay can be done that kind of gameplay will grow stale afterwards. If you've read Malstrom's latest blog thats what Malstrom wants in Zelda. Less puzzles more action. Theres a reason why Miyamoto made Zelda  a puzzle game with abit of exploration game once it became 3-d.

 

I admit Zelda TP was too scripted, you really have no chance to explore and you only follow what the game says you, BUT... eliminating a foundation why Zelda became Zelda once it became 3-d in N64 was just franchise suicide. But I could be wrong though



end of core gaming days prediction:

 

E3 2006-The beginning of the end. Wii introduced

 

E3 2008- Armageddon. Wii motion plus introduced. Wii Music. Reggie says Animal crossing was a core game. Massive disappointment. many Wii core gamers selling their Wii.

 

E3 2010- Tape runs out

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2009/ICG_Tape_runs_out.jpg

"If you've played any MOH and COD games it cant be done."

Those don't mean the entire FPS genre can't have pickup single player. It would just be of a different form than the typical games.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

NO. its still cant be done unless the wiimote only have 4 to 6 buttons no. I count all the buttons and the wiimote have 12 buttons including the nunchuck. And if the simple pick up and play are in revival then why Malstrom didnt stop asking about it? Why Nintendo still releasing as he says in his blogs super GC games. And do you know what? 3rd parties and Nintendo still keeps releasing super GC games from years to come.


There'll be tutorials, cutscenes, scripted events and texts in few years more to come. Simple pick up and play in retail games arent possible anymore well except for Mario. This isnt just like the 80s anymore.



end of core gaming days prediction:

 

E3 2006-The beginning of the end. Wii introduced

 

E3 2008- Armageddon. Wii motion plus introduced. Wii Music. Reggie says Animal crossing was a core game. Massive disappointment. many Wii core gamers selling their Wii.

 

E3 2010- Tape runs out

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2009/ICG_Tape_runs_out.jpg