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A possible reason 3rd parties ignore the Wii...

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Mr.Y said:

It'll get more Japanese 3rd party games towards the end, I'm not sure about western developers. The question is if Nintendo can get more western developers on board the next generation?


Well Nintendo consoles always get 3rd party support but the sales obviously affects what they do in the long run. People have complained about support since the N64.

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mjc2021 said:


 

Ravving Rabbids and Guitar Hero 3 doing well on the Wii gives me little reason to believe Assassin's Creed would be a success on the Wii. Assassin's Creed is M rated and not a party game. Trends seem to show when a game is released on the 360, PS3, and Wii the Wii version has the poorest sales. I'm not saying that's the case every time, especially if its a game that would appeal to kids.

If more 3rd parties have profited from Wii development I assume we would see more support. Also you have to remember when a HD game is developed it can be ported to the 360, PS3, and PC with little changes. The Wii needs games designed specifically for it or it just shares games with the PS2.

Some good points, but a few things here. Firstly, it is not as simple as a basic HD port from PC to 360 to PS3, as there are licensing costs, GPU compatibilities, etc. PC to 360 is fairly easy, as most PC games are Windows games, so Windows games and 360 games can both use the Direct X technology. That said, it takes a different platform to run the GPU on the PS3, thus making the port trickier. Then, of course, you deal with dev kits, if the company doesn't already own them, and of course, licensing costs, which can cost up to $100K  per title. Porting from and to the PS3 is quite its own challenge in itself. Only the art assets stay the same, the codebase needs to change entirely.

It would be reasonable to assume that if a game like No More Heroes can sell over 1m units on the Wii, most M rated games have that potential, Assasin's creed included. There is still a healthy crowd of core gamers that buy Wii games, they just get drowned out in the sales numbers by the amount of casual/part time gamers. There are still over a million people out there that are in the market for M rated Wii games. COD:WaW is a good example of this, as it broke the 1 mil mark, and is on all 3 platforms.

 

 



mjc2021 said:
BengaBenga said:
Wii sold more 3rd party software than 360 and PS3 (not combined) in 2008. Biasing your list by only using the top 10's, which include mega games like GTA, Metal Gear Solid and Call of Duty 4, obviously won't tell you anything about 3rd party sales, just about the distribution of the big 3rd party games over the platforms.

 

Well Pinab posted this:
Total by 3rd party:
Wii: ~ 140M
X360: ~ 180M
Ps3: ~ 100M

I presume the numbers are somewhat accurate but I don't really know. Also the Wii has more bargain bin prices and a much larger userbase. When it comes to 1st party sales though the Wii definitely dominates. Not quite as much when you exclude Wii Sports and Wii Play but still the highest.

 

I don't know if these are accurate, but let's assume they are, you still can't say the Wii has more bargain bin prices without mentioning the much lower development costs. 360 sales obviously include a full year extra. And the PS3 and 360 are bundled with 3rd party games where Wii isn't.

Nintendo is by far the most succesful game developer in the world and their games are obviously very competitive on their own platform. Also you want to exclude WiiSports and WiiPlay, which is fine, but they ARE games which people play, which means less potential sales for other games.

So despite all this Wii still sold most 3rd party games last year and a very healthy total overall that is at the very least competitive to 360 and PS3. Mind you: without a lot of the very big franchises.



mjc2021 said:
Mr.Y said:

It'll get more Japanese 3rd party games towards the end, I'm not sure about western developers. The question is if Nintendo can get more western developers on board the next generation?


 

Well Nintendo consoles always get 3rd party support but the sales obviously affects what they do in the long run. People have complained about support since the N64.

 

I mean good third party support. You're telling me the N64 had good third party support? Sales isn't always a determining factor either.



bardicverse said:
mjc2021 said:


 

Ravving Rabbids and Guitar Hero 3 doing well on the Wii gives me little reason to believe Assassin's Creed would be a success on the Wii. Assassin's Creed is M rated and not a party game. Trends seem to show when a game is released on the 360, PS3, and Wii the Wii version has the poorest sales. I'm not saying that's the case every time, especially if its a game that would appeal to kids.

If more 3rd parties have profited from Wii development I assume we would see more support. Also you have to remember when a HD game is developed it can be ported to the 360, PS3, and PC with little changes. The Wii needs games designed specifically for it or it just shares games with the PS2.

Some good points, but a few things here. Firstly, it is not as simple as a basic HD port from PC to 360 to PS3, as there are licensing costs, GPU compatibilities, etc. PC to 360 is fairly easy, as most PC games are Windows games, so Windows games and 360 games can both use the Direct X technology. That said, it takes a different platform to run the GPU on the PS3, thus making the port trickier. Then, of course, you deal with dev kits, if the company doesn't already own them, and of course, licensing costs, which can cost up to $100K  per title. Porting from and to the PS3 is quite its own challenge in itself. Only the art assets stay the same, the codebase needs to change entirely.

It would be reasonable to assume that if a game like No More Heroes can sell over 1m units on the Wii, most M rated games have that potential, Assasin's creed included. There is still a healthy crowd of core gamers that buy Wii games, they just get drowned out in the sales numbers by the amount of casual/part time gamers. There are still over a million people out there that are in the market for M rated Wii games. COD:WaW is a good example of this, as it broke the 1 mil mark, and is on all 3 platforms.

 

 


Well porting a game between the 360, PS3, and PC isn't exactly "simple", but it must be an easier process than porting it to the Wii. I assume bringing Dead Rising to the PS3 would have been easier than the Wii port which appears to have been made from the ground up using the RE4 engine. Going that route sounds more expensive and time consuming but I'm not a developer.

I'm kind confused by what you're saying about No More Heroes. That game didn't sell a million copies (sold 400K). Also No More Heroes was a Wii exclusive which didn't seem to help sales in a big way. If No More Heroes was a 360 exclusive I imagine it would have cleared a million.

World at War is no indication other M rated games will sell a million on the Wii. In fact it tells me the most popular 3rd party games out today won't have outstanding sales on the Wii. If World at War only sold a million on the 360 and PS3 that would have been considered a bomb. But for the Wii it's somehow a great thing.



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Mr.Y said:
mjc2021 said:
Mr.Y said:

It'll get more Japanese 3rd party games towards the end, I'm not sure about western developers. The question is if Nintendo can get more western developers on board the next generation?


 

Well Nintendo consoles always get 3rd party support but the sales obviously affects what they do in the long run. People have complained about support since the N64.

 

I mean good third party support. You're telling me the N64 had good third party support? Sales isn't always a determining factor either.


True, but the cartridges also limit potential of games. Seems like most developers didn't want to go beyond 16MB of storage.

BengaBenga said:
mjc2021 said:
BengaBenga said:
Wii sold more 3rd party software than 360 and PS3 (not combined) in 2008. Biasing your list by only using the top 10's, which include mega games like GTA, Metal Gear Solid and Call of Duty 4, obviously won't tell you anything about 3rd party sales, just about the distribution of the big 3rd party games over the platforms.

 

Well Pinab posted this:
Total by 3rd party:
Wii: ~ 140M
X360: ~ 180M
Ps3: ~ 100M

I presume the numbers are somewhat accurate but I don't really know. Also the Wii has more bargain bin prices and a much larger userbase. When it comes to 1st party sales though the Wii definitely dominates. Not quite as much when you exclude Wii Sports and Wii Play but still the highest.

 

I don't know if these are accurate, but let's assume they are, you still can't say the Wii has more bargain bin prices without mentioning the much lower development costs. 360 sales obviously include a full year extra. And the PS3 and 360 are bundled with 3rd party games where Wii isn't.

Nintendo is by far the most succesful game developer in the world and their games are obviously very competitive on their own platform. Also you want to exclude WiiSports and WiiPlay, which is fine, but they ARE games which people play, which means less potential sales for other games.

So despite all this Wii still sold most 3rd party games last year and a very healthy total overall that is at the very least competitive to 360 and PS3. Mind you: without a lot of the very big franchises.


Well the Wii has the potential to move more 3rd party software for several reasons. Most notably cheaper prices and larger userbase. But for whatever reason they tend to under perform in regards to sales. Even when the Wii does have big franchises or tons of advertising sales don't seem to be affected much.

It seems like the 3rd party games people love are ignored and the 3rd party games that do top charts are surprise hits. Due to that I think future support will be negatively affected for core fans.



mjc2021 said:
Mr.Y said:

I mean good third party support. You're telling me the N64 had good third party support? Sales isn't always a determining factor either.


True, but the cartridges also limit potential of games. Seems like most developers didn't want to go beyond 16MB of storage.

 

The only thing that limits the potential of games is the developers imagination.



mjc2021 said:
BengaBenga said:
Wii sold more 3rd party software than 360 and PS3 (not combined) in 2008. Biasing your list by only using the top 10's, which include mega games like GTA, Metal Gear Solid and Call of Duty 4, obviously won't tell you anything about 3rd party sales, just about the distribution of the big 3rd party games over the platforms.

 

Well Pinab posted this:
Total by 3rd party:
Wii: ~ 140M
X360: ~ 180M
Ps3: ~ 100M

I presume the numbers are somewhat accurate but I don't really know. Also the Wii has more bargain bin prices and a much larger userbase. When it comes to 1st party sales though the Wii definitely dominates. Not quite as much when you exclude Wii Sports and Wii Play but still the highest.

 

I'll post this then:

"NPD data has made clear that, in the calendar year of 2008, Wii was the hardware on which the biggest number of third party software were sold in the U.S."



3rd parties ignore the Wii?

-MH3
-Samurai Warriors 3
-DQ X
-FFCC: TCB
-Conduit
-Overlord
-TvC coming to NA
-Arc Rise Fantasia
-Little King's Story
-Bethsda new game
-Tales of Graces
-Silent Hill
-Kizuna
-Contra Rebirth
-Sakura Wars

etc.

Yeah...hardly. Not all are big games but that doesn't matter. The top 10 is filled with old games. New announcements have made much difference. And if you look at the top 10 for the HD consoles it's mainly sports and shooters and music games which isn't even all that better compared to the Wii's top 10. Instead of taking the top 10, take the total number of third party SW for each consoles. And then again the Wii would probably appear pretty impressive considering the lack of big third party titles released on it.