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Reasonable said:
Slimebeast said:

KZ2 budget and revenue:

Dev cost:
100 team average x 4 years x $100,000 = $40 million.

Add some outsourcing costs (some AI, perhaps some texture work, some of the sound & music/orchestratingm voice actors etc) ~ $10 million.
--------------
= ~$50 million

Marketing (hard to estimate):
~$30-40 million?
-----------
total expenses: $80-90 milion


Each game copy sold generates $30.

So it would need to sell 2.67-3 million to break even.

Early numbers indicate a 900,000-1 million copies opening week, which means lifetime sales of 4 million.

4 million generates $120 million. So, pretty much guaranteed to make at least a lil profit.

I'm sure KZ2 was expensive, but I doubt they've paid 100 people full time for 4 years.  It would be more normal to have an flexible team that ramped up/down over time hitting a peak when full production was in place.

However as ever its too simple to look at things in isolation.  If you have an engine in place to use/adapt, as Epic did with Gears, your costs will be less, if you build an engine from scratch (as Epic had to years back with the original Unreal, which was 5 years in development if I remember correctly) then it's going to cost you more.

But of course once you have the engine, subsequent games become cheaper to produce and over time you make more money.  KZ2 looks like it will be a hit, and with the engine now in place KZ3 should be a less expensive affair to get out the door.

This is why so many devs are attracted to sourcing engines in the first place, to avoid that initial expense - the down side is that unless the developer is good/has an original concept you get many 'meh' games on the same engine.  Personally I find more than half U3 based games 'meh' which is not a knock on the engine, but that its rarely properly exploited and serves as a low cost way to bash a game out.

I'm pretty sure Uncharted cost around $30 Million to develop, with ND stating a lot of that was due to having to build everything from scratch essentially (although actors and mocap CGI scenes probably didn't cut costs either!).  I would guess KZ2 cost around that or more to develop - however as with Gears its not all about one throw of the dice, but making some money on the initial investment and getting a franchise in place where each release should be more profitable than the last.

The advertising amount you have seems very high though - I know the game has been hyped on the internet, etc. but I've seen nothing for the game remotely like Halo 3 advertising or big budget movie advertising so tens of millions in advertising seems unlikely I would think.

 

I've seen numbers of the Guerilla team swelling to 130 or 140 guys in the end.

Ideally game developing would use flexible teams but in reality an employer can't just hire and kick people just like they want.

Anyway, I'm thinking:
Year 1: 40 ppl on average
year 2: 80 ppl
year 3: 120 ppl
year 4: 120 ppl
-------------------
average 90 per year (which is rufly 100 )

If you agree Uncharted cost $30 mill (I've seen the number $20mill) you must conclude that KZ2 cost a lot more than that - not just based on KZ2 looking more advanced and having multiplayer, but the fact that we know it got delayed and had a lot longer dev time than Uncharted.

I agree though that it's an investment that will pay off (even more) if they make a sequel on the PS3.

About marketing I can't speak for the world but in Sweden the KZ2 marketing has been huge. I've seen ads in many places where I seldom see game ads, like in daily newspapers.

 



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dolemit3 said:
Aj_habfan said:
Nice sales, and it looks like Killzone 2 was a console mover, despite so many of you bashing Sony for predicting this...

except that Sony predicted that Killzone 2 would move as many units as MGS4.

 

Okay, that has what to do with my post exactly?

 



Sony will get more then $30 per copy, they made the game. Retailers don't get near that amount.

Also, the sequel will cost a significant amount less now they have an engine and models fully made.



Impressive :)



If you aren't playing B3YOND, you're playing behind

Playstation 3: It Only Does Everything

Aj_habfan said:
Sony will get more then $30 per copy, they made the game. Retailers don't get near that amount.

Also, the sequel will cost a significant amount less now they have an engine and models fully made.

 

 That is where Sony can really make their money. Especially if they push it out soon. (with in 2 years)



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Jordahn said:
It looks like this thread is one of several evidence of anti-SONY fanboys who cannot give credit where it's due because they are not gamers. Killzone 2 sold well for its start and it did help boost PS3 units. And I'm not afraid to call out names such as kirby007 and Starcraft because as long as SONY continues to push the PS3, it will always be a quality viable option. As I gamer, the successes of all console maker are great, and I do not make excuses to downplay those successes. As soon as you guys and other like you become gamers, SONY's successes will stop being a thorn in your sides. But keep hurting. I'm not because I'm a gamer, first.

:)

 

I agree man. Its a shame some people take so much pleasure in bashing something they dont own. Its either blind hatred (toward Sony)  or blind loyality (toward  MS). In some cases its just the opposite. Makes for good entertainment though.



  Tifa got MOVES!

Slimebeast said:
Rainbird said:
Slimebeast said:

KZ2 budget and revenue:

Dev cost:
100 team average x 4 years x $100,000 = $40 million.

Add some outsourcing costs (some AI, perhaps some texture work, some of the sound & music/orchestratingm voice actors etc) ~ $10 million.
--------------
= ~$50 million

Marketing (hard to estimate):
~$30-40 million?
-----------
total expenses: $80-90 milion


Each game copy sold generates $30.

So it would need to sell 2.67-3 million to break even.

Early numbers indicate a 900,000-1 million copies opening week, which means lifetime sales of 4 million.

4 million generates $120 million. So, pretty much guaranteed to make at least a lil profit.

It's hard to say, but Killzone: Liberation wasn't released until october 2006, and the dev tools for PS3 weren't out until early 2006, so dev costs are probably a little lower.

You're not saying PS3 launch games like Motorstorm and Resistance were made in just ½ a year of available hardware, are you? They must have had some form of game engine running before 2006 on a prototype PS3 or PC hardware or something. Or else it would be impossible to release games at console launch.

Games like Resistance usually take 2 years to develop. And KZ2 comes out another 2 years after the launch of PS3, so theoritical possible dev time is at least 4 years. Im finking they began KZ2 a few months before the release of the E3 trailer in 2005 (concept, design and art alongside making the prerendered trailer).

This is the best source I could find (march '06):

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146440.html

"In an article posted today on Nikkei Net, Kiyoshi reports that Sony hasn't been able to provide key PS3 development tools to game makers in a timely fashion. As a result, Shin said, most companies haven't even been able to go into full-scale development for PS3 games, even though it's already spring, which was Sony's initial launch period for the console. Nikkei Net says Shin pointed out that the PS3's compiler, which converts programs into a language that the console can understand, wasn't released until very recently.

The responsibility for the compiler was entrusted to compiler specialist SN Systems Limited, which was acquired by Sony in 2005. However, Shin said that the compiler's release had been continually delayed due to the complexity of the PS3's hardware and its multicore Cell processor. SN Systems finally made its release at the end of 2005, but according to Shin, it still didn't take full advantage of the PS3. As a result, IBM itself has become involved in the creation of the PS3's development support tools, and a compiler optimized for the Cell chip is finally being released this month."



shock182 said:
headhunterz67 said:
There's one thing I don't understand : there has been 1.2 million pre-orders in Europe and it sold only 372k first week ? WTF ?

 

 That number was BS or actually copies ordered by retailers as some suggested.

 

Has it been out a full week already???



  Tifa got MOVES!

Jinova said:
shock182 said:
headhunterz67 said:
There's one thing I don't understand : there has been 1.2 million pre-orders in Europe and it sold only 372k first week ? WTF ?

 

 That number was BS or actually copies ordered by retailers as some suggested.

 

Has it been out a full week already???

 

 4 or 5 days of sales counted. Problem is, most people who pre-order games pick them up launch day or the day after. Logically, most pre-orders have been picked up.



nice! Killzone 2 certainly moved some hardware since PS3 narrowly beat 360 for the first time in a while.

KZ2 selling a frothy 370,000! nicely done.



Owner of 360

Future owner of a PS3 (when it drops to $300)