Is It True That 3rd Party Games Can't Sell on the Wii? Figures say No.

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Next-Generation has compiled the top selling 100 games from the last year (last 12 months)across North America and Europe by sales figures. Figures for a title include the total for all platforms.

They range from #100. Ninja Gaiden Sigma -PS3 Exclusive-470K to
#1. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare-X360/PS3/PC/DS - 8.3M

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noname2200 said:


 While I see what you're getting at, I think I did address this concern in my earlier posts. Again, third parties appear to be making more profit (not revenue) off the Wii than they are on the HD systems, if my math and reading are correct. This includes the new IPs, such as the oft-mentioned Zak and Wiki and No More Heroes, as I wrote in the last post. I also believe there are some flaws in your current assumptions. For starters, it may not necessarily be true that the Wii requires entirely new IPs to be successful: while the new control method certainly opens up new ways to play, it can also easily accomodate and enhance more traditional games. Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, and Metroid are all prime examples of this: the IPs may be quite old by this point, but they play differently, and that alone makes all the difference. I actually have more thoughts about how the controller will probably have great long-term impacts on all games (not just Wii ones), but that's a topic for another time.

You are right, I think I was wrong to assume that new IP's would absolutely be required. I was thinking too much of smaller software development houses that lacked the appropriate IPs. Though I would have to assert that it the Wii has a greater return on investment currently for third parties. In absolute terms the profit issmaller than the HD consoles currently.

I am still concerned that the small software houses will fail to gain traction on the Wii, advertising may be required to really distinguish a good game from the rest on the Wii.

 I've bolded the sentence in your post where I believe you went astray. The assertion is obviously correct, as Clover proves, but it hasn't applied to the Wii so far. Third parties have certainly found the system to be quite profitable: for many of the mid-and-small sized developers, it may well be their lifesaver. Again, not to toot my own horn too much here, but refer to my previous posts for most of my answer to this issue.

Yep I think you were right.

I'd also like to add that while Nintendo may be doing more innovation than the rest of the industry combined right now, they're hardly the only ones who are doing so: I believe that Pro Evolution Soccer for the Wii is completely revolutionizing how we will play sports games in the future, as the Wiimote finally allows you to control the whole team, not just a single player. Boom Blox is an incredibly original and creative game that realistically isn't possible on any other system: if EA does choose to port it elsewhere, I believe those ports will meet the same fate that Raving Rabbids did. Pro Evolution Soccer has already proven to be quite lucrative for Konami, and I expect that in the long run Boom Blox will do the same for EA. There are other examples out there, but listing them would simply clutter my posts even further; I'm working on being more concise, and listing games is a prime way to do the opposite!

I think the if you wanted to really quantify what Nintendo is doing, you would say it is "innovation with insight". It is too easy to innovate in counterproductive ways. It takes insight to really nail innovation and produce products that really excite and shake up the market time after time. Wii fit really changed my picture of the company. I will have to look at pro evolution soccer what you say sounds really interesting!

We do, however, agree that more innovative games will almost certainly be arriving in the near future. 

@grampy: Open mouth, insert foot. Sorry, I'd assumed that the list was built along the same lines as metacritic, and was thus reminded what happens when you assume. Thanks for the link: I'll definitely have to give it a closer look in the morning. For now, I'm off to bed. I enjoyed this thread and the discussion, so thank you for starting it. 

I hope I haven't sounded like I was attacking the Wii!

I look forward to seeing the innovate games coming on the Wii, I hope dearly that the good ones can rise to the top to be noticed and recieve the praise/attention/money they deserve.



Capcom FY 2008 Financial Statement Press Release:

a. In this business segment, "Resident Evil 4 Wii edition" and "Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles" (for Wii) increased their brand recognition especially in overseas markets. Their shipment surpassed one million units, greatly exceeding our projection.

Don't they know 3rd Party Software can't sell on the Wii? This will encourage other developers and it's not even a kiddy game.

The key difference that people ignore is the installed userbase. Let me explain -

Lets say we have 2 systems, system A has 20 million units WW sold, and system B has 10 million WW.

Lets say a game comes out for both systems. In order to match sales, system B's version has to sell to 100% of the userbase to be even with system A selling the game to 50% of the userbase.

Now let's factor in development costs. System A costs 5 million dollars to make a game, System B costs 10 million dollars to make a game. For argument's sake, lets say that both systems sell their game for 10 dollars each.

System A sells to 50% of its userbase, making a gross income of 100 million dollars, minus 5 million for development, making their profit be 95 million dollars.

System B sells to 100% of its userbase, making a gross income of 100 million dollars, minus 10 million for development, making their profit be 90 million dollars.

At the end of the day, the game only has to reach about 48% of its userbase to make the same money as it would if it sold to 100% of the userbase of system B.

To simplify, a game could be a "flop" on system A and still carry a bigger profit than a "hit" game on system B. At the end of the day, it's only partially a popularity contest for a game, but moreso a means of making money. Developers don't go out and build games for the platforms a bunch of gamer geeks think is "cool". They go where the userbase is, which is why 3rd party developers are actually doing quite well on the Wii, even if their games aren't in the top 10.

We often rely on the top 10 lists, but we really should be looking at the actual money made on sales to see how well a game is doing.

The key difference that people ignore is the installed userbase

Nobody here is taking userbase into account when talking about flops. Its always absolute sales numbers (million seller). The userbase only comes into account when people explain why a system flops.

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01 [360] Grand Theft Auto IV (Take 2)
02 [PS3] Grand Theft Auto IV (Take 2)
03 [WII] Wii Fit (Nintendo)
04 [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo)
05 [WII] Wii Play (Nintendo)
06 [WII] Mario & Sonic At The Olympic Games (Sega)

07 [NDS] Dr Kawashima's Brain Training (Nintendo)
08 [PS3] Gran Turismo 5: Prologue (Sony Computer Ent.)
09 [WII] Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 (Ubisoft)
10 [WII] Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 (Konami)

11 [NDS] High School Musical 2: Work This Out! (Disney Interactive Studios)
12 [WII] Carnival: Funfair Games (Take 2)
13 [WII] Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity (Sega)
14 [360] Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Activision)
15 [NDS] Cooking Mama 2 (505 Games)
16 [NDS] Mario & Sonic At The Olympic Games (Sega)
17 [WII] Game Party (Midway)
18 [NDS] Imagine: Babies (Ubisoft)
19 [WII] Boom Blox (Electronic Arts)
20 [NDS] More Brain Training From Dr Kawashima (Nintendo)

Number of titles in the top 20 according to platform:

10 – Wii - 7 are 3rd parties
2 - PS3
2 - 360
6 – DS
0 – PSP
0 - PC

Italics - Wi
Bold Italics - Wii 3rd party.


3rd parties on Wii can't sell???

The rEVOLution is not being televised

I think the fear/idea comes more from core game 3rd party developers then 3rd party devs in general.

All those games listed are either ports (thus relatively lower dev costs) OR games that either cater to the casual or have a core/casual userbase. That's what PS360 Fanboys/girls are going on about.

They are interesting figures though, and I do agree that the Wii is not a barren wasteland for third party devs, all I was doing was pointing out the other side of the coin.

I am a Wii owner and do agree that third party games have sold better than many people want to admit. That said, I do not think that "projections" should be put up as proof about how well they are selling. It makes it look as though you are trying to drive your point home too much. It also makes it look like you have to make up data in order to back up your statement, which is not the case. The Wii has plenty of third party games with "real" sales.

Proud member of the SONIC SUPPORT SQUAD

Tag "Sorry man. Someone pissed in my Wheaties."

"There are like ten games a year that sell over a million units."  High Voltage CEO -  Eric Nofsinger

3rd parties on Wii can't sell???

with the exception of badly reviewed party games. That M&S at the Olympics, Game Party and Carnival games, Raving rabbits etc. sell great is not news.

Kyros said:
The key difference that people ignore is the installed userbase

Nobody here is taking userbase into account when talking about flops. Its always absolute sales numbers (million seller). The userbase only comes into account when people explain why a system flops.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. A game flopping or not is always relative to what it can be reasonably expected to sell. For example Super Mario Galaxy or Grand Theft Auto 4 selling 5 million during their lifetime would be something of a flop, but obscure niche games reaching even a few hundred thousand isn't half bad at all.

It's pretty damn impossible to say wether a game like Zack&Wiki or No More Heroes is a flop. I mean what do you expect a game by Suda51, or a point&click adventure on a console to sell? I was hoping something like 500k for both, but to flop they'd have to do truly miniscule numbers.