This is why I prefer F-Zero to Mariokart as far as nintendo racers go...

Ajax said: Mario Kart always had cath up, but the question is, is the cath up 'too great' this time? it's not the first time I hear this complaint you know..

Why do I feel like I'm the only one who ever actually played the original Super Mario Kart?

That game did NOT have special catch-up crap attached to the AI.  In fact, you could lap computer opponents simply by racing well.  Mario Kart 64 was the first to introduce "You're in first, I go faster" to the equation.

Words Of Wisdom said: Ajax said: Mario Kart always had cath up, but the question is, is the cath up 'too great' this time? it's not the first time I hear this complaint you know.. Why do I feel like I'm the only one who ever actually played the original Super Mario Kart? That game did NOT have special catch-up crap attached to the AI. In fact, you could lap computer opponents simply by racing well. Mario Kart 64 was the first to introduce "You're in first, I go faster" to the equation.

The original kart had rubber band AI to a point but on plenty of tracks you could effectively 'break' the rubber band if you drove at top speed for an extended period.  Some tracks like the Koopa Beaches and Chocolate Islands which stopped you from reaching and staying at your cart's top speed were a little harder because you couldn't easily get a big lead and thus were more prone to red shells and the like.

Well, at least now we can race online where there isn't rubber banding besides the items.

windbane said: Gnizmo said: Ajax said: that is only right if your the only good player on the track brawl4life and the rest are n00bs cause if there are even just one or two other good players, the moment you get nuked so heavily 2nd and 3rd will take over.. so you can stay behind the number 1 waiting for it's imminent doom.. anyway, I need to play this game much more myself before I can comment better about it.. If you are in a race of people with equivalent skill then yes this can be true. Notice the disclaimer though. The more skilled racer will always win. The claim I am disputing is the game is too random and skill is not the ultimate determining factor. It is absolute bullcrap that the person with the most skill always wins. If people are close in skill it can often come down to luck. You can constantly be trailing a guy for 2 and a half laps and all the sudden that person gets nailed by blue turtle shells and you win. It's been that way for several karts. I have heard from several souces that this Wii version has more ridiculous rubber-banding. brawl4life: yeah, I miss the custom items in DD...

Yes I agree.  It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest it all comes down to skill.  But it's even more ridiculous to suggest (as some reviews do that it all comes down to luck).  I played against TWROO (Larry Lion) last week and I was in total shock at how far ahead of the rest of us he was in most races.  That was all down to his skill.  But at the same time there was a race where he finished only 4th or 5th despite being far better than the rest of us.  And that is all down to the blue shell.  I think items work perfectly to balance the game out but blue shell really should not be in this game.  You can lead the whole race, be hit by blue shell just before the line and be overtaken by two others.  That's just to random and unfair.  And to suggest you can always be so far ahead of the pack that blue shells are irrelevant is rubbish.  What if you are playing against 11 fantastically good players?  Or what if as in the case of TWROO you are on a short track where getting so far ahead of an even average pack is not that easy.  Other than the blue shells I think the catch up works perfect.   

 

tuoyo said: Yes I agree. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest it all comes down to skill. But it's even more ridiculous to suggest (as some reviews do that it all comes down to luck). I played against TWROO (Larry Lion) last week and I was in total shock at how far ahead of the rest of us he was in most races. That was all down to his skill. But at the same time there was a race where he finished only 4th or 5th despite being far better than the rest of us. And that is all down to the blue shell. I think items work perfectly to balance the game out but blue shell really should not be in this game. You can lead the whole race, be hit by blue shell just before the line and be overtaken by two others. That's just to random and unfair. And to suggest you can always be so far ahead of the pack that blue shells are irrelevant is rubbish. What if you are playing against 11 fantastically good players? Or what if as in the case of TWROO you are on a short track where getting so far ahead of an even average pack is not that easy. Other than the blue shells I think the catch up works perfect.

The blue shell isn't enough to make a skilled player lose a race.

 

The real problem is the Blue shell in grand prix mode.... when you're last, you don't care who it hits, but when you're first it always hits you even when you have half a lap of advance.... and usually it's by 2 in the same lap for me...


I noticed though that when you have sufficient lead, the computer doesn't go berserk on you... though sometimes... I recall a tight race (peach beach) where I was like 5th, get a giant mushroom, use it before a box, get a golden mushroom, I'm then First being giant and start using the golden shroom on the straight line.... should have a good 3-4 seconds advance on the #2 there, well no, next curve I already have the 2nd guy on my screen...Kind of reminded me of FZero SNES...

Rol probably is too good to have been in the phase where he's barely leading the race and gets plummeted by 3 red shells, a blue shell, a pow and a lightning in the final 50 feet of the race, but for all other players that level their skills with the 50cc then 100cc then 150cc, the game is extremely frustrating at that point.

NJ5 said: tuoyo said: Yes I agree. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest it all comes down to skill. But it's even more ridiculous to suggest (as some reviews do that it all comes down to luck). I played against TWROO (Larry Lion) last week and I was in total shock at how far ahead of the rest of us he was in most races. That was all down to his skill. But at the same time there was a race where he finished only 4th or 5th despite being far better than the rest of us. And that is all down to the blue shell. I think items work perfectly to balance the game out but blue shell really should not be in this game. You can lead the whole race, be hit by blue shell just before the line and be overtaken by two others. That's just to random and unfair. And to suggest you can always be so far ahead of the pack that blue shells are irrelevant is rubbish. What if you are playing against 11 fantastically good players? Or what if as in the case of TWROO you are on a short track where getting so far ahead of an even average pack is not that easy. Other than the blue shells I think the catch up works perfect.   The blue shell isn't enough to make a skilled player lose a race.

It is when you are playing against other players who are also very good and you are just slightly better than and even if you are much better than them.  That's why I gave the example of TWROO.  He is clearly a skilled player and holds most of the time trial records on this site.  In a race you could be driving flawlessly then get hit by a blue shell and suddenly lose the items you are holding for protection.  Then a red shell could come your way.  Next thing you know one or two racers have raced past you.  Or my personal favourite (which I never hope to experience again) - you get hit by a blue shell, then before you start moving again get a red shell, then as you are about to start moving again you get crushed by someone who has used a giant mushroom and before you know it you have dropped from 1st to 8th place after leading for 2.75 laps of the race.

And it is when it hits you when you are just doing a jump and find yourself falling into a lava pit. 

 

NJ5 said: tuoyo said: Yes I agree. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest it all comes down to skill. But it's even more ridiculous to suggest (as some reviews do that it all comes down to luck). I played against TWROO (Larry Lion) last week and I was in total shock at how far ahead of the rest of us he was in most races. That was all down to his skill. But at the same time there was a race where he finished only 4th or 5th despite being far better than the rest of us. And that is all down to the blue shell. I think items work perfectly to balance the game out but blue shell really should not be in this game. You can lead the whole race, be hit by blue shell just before the line and be overtaken by two others. That's just to random and unfair. And to suggest you can always be so far ahead of the pack that blue shells are irrelevant is rubbish. What if you are playing against 11 fantastically good players? Or what if as in the case of TWROO you are on a short track where getting so far ahead of an even average pack is not that easy. Other than the blue shells I think the catch up works perfect.   The blue shell isn't enough to make a skilled player lose a race.

If many "skilled" players are competing to win, a blue turtle shell from someone not even involved in the battle can determine who wins.

tuoyo said: NJ5 said: The blue shell isn't enough to make a skilled player lose a race.   It is when you are playing against other players who are also very good and you are just slightly better than and even if you are much better than them. That's why I gave the example of TWROO. He is clearly a skilled player and holds most of the time trial records on this site. In a race you could be driving flawlessly then get hit by a blue shell and suddenly lose the items you are holding for protection. Then a red shell could come your way. Next thing you know one or two racers have raced past you. Or my personal favourite (which I never hope to experience again) - you get hit by a blue shell, then before you start moving again get a red shell, then as you are about to start moving again you get crushed by someone who has used a giant mushroom and before you know it you have dropped from 1st to 8th place after leading for 2.75 laps of the race. And it is when it hits you when you are just doing a jump and find yourself falling into a lava pit.

When I said "a skilled player", I obviously meant that he/she is skilled versus the other players. Skill is always relative.

Sure, sometimes you can get really unlucky, but not just because of the blue shell. However, that's just the way this game is. With so many items, luck can play a part. IMO, that's also what makes it fun - the game always keeps you on your toes, you can never relax and call the race a win before it's over (unless it's Rainbow Road and you're miles ahead of players who keep falling off the track :P). Even then, a more skilled player will still win most races, which is what really matters.