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MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

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d21lewis said:
DonFerrari said:

Of course there can only be one winner, that doesn't mean that whoever doesn't win have done bad.

Depends on what your idea of winning is. Sales? Profits? Games? Power? Features? One could argue that every company won the 7th gen.

But let's be honest. The Wii won. 😉

Doesn't matter the metric, winner is still a single entity.

You see a race in the olympic, the one that finished first the 100m is the winner even if the 3rd place have made more money through sponsorship.

So yes Wii sold more on its gen, the reason a big portion don't consider it a winner is because they weren't competing with PS3 and X360 by admission of Nintendo and Sony themselves.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

eeeer no, they haven't said anything about releasing crossgen for two years after PS5 debut. Sure you may say several of their studios won't have games ready in the first 2 years, but that isn't the same thing.

Different strategies, simular results in the end.

Radek said:

Imagine a PC game being made for running on GTX 660 and i3 as minimum requirement and then imagine PC game being made for running with GTX 1060, SSD and Ryzen 5 as minimum requirement.

Even at 1440p or 4K which one do you think will have higher quality graphics and more complex AI and physics (despite of resolution)

And I was being generous with GTX 660 as Xbox One has something even less powerful, GTX 660 is PS4 level GPU.

I mean come on, it's 2020 and even $150 GTX 1650 Super is faster than PS4 Pro 4.2 Tflops GPU!

I'm playing Gears 5 and it runs great on my new RX 5700 XT, Ultra details and 4K I'm getting 60 fps, but if that game was designed with only Xbox One X in mind, I wouldn't be getting more than 30 fps in 4K on ultra and the game would look next gen already.

And Xbox One X is already less powerful than Lockhart even will be, I wish Xbox One X became the lowest available Xbox for 2020-2022 games.

So when games like God of War were made, it wasnt held back by PS4 hardware when RTX-2080 GPUs were on the market? God of War still turned out pretty and so did Gears 5, lets also add TLOU2. It doesn't seem like older limited hardware is affecting the bigger AAA game developments and companie's vision.

A good developer will create a good game regardless of console limitations and BOTW is a perfect example of that.

Games can always look better regardless if they choose to use the latest console.

That is a moving the goalpost if I ever saw one.

You claimed Sony is doing the same stuff, just admit you are wrong.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

eva01beserk said:
Azzanation said:

Made on WiiU, Became Game of the generation.

But power was never Nintendo's promo. But Xbox had been power since the xbox x.

Actually power was always the thing of Xbox.

Original Xbox was the most powerful on the gen, X360 is close to PS3 in power and coming one year early that meant they were trying to be the most powerful again, X1 Don said it was impossible that they would ever let PS4 be 30% more powerful (and he was lying through and through since the systems were already revealed and the power difference was know), X1X was launched a year after PS4Pro to ensure they would be a lot more powerful, they are also touting the power of XSX (which leakers said are very near PS5 in power but haven't said which is stronger and other leakers say it is 30% stronger).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Nu-13 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Do you really feel AC Unity lived up to their vision? Absolutely not. Achieving a vision is not just about the hardware. Its also resources and deadlines.

I dont think the crowds was too much for 8th gen hardware, instead its the optimization wasnt there nor a good use of resources from a gameplay perspective. Later AC games were better optimized in general, still pretty dense with NPCs, but could also spend resources elsewhere.

Developers were arguably more experimental last gen with inferior specs. This gen many played it safe instead pushing visuals and more open world games. It was like gen 7.5 not because limited specs, but because it was safe from a development and sales perspective.

Series X will probably be $499 at best. That's my guess, which also tells me we need Lockhart at $299. I hope that happens, I think it would put MS in good place competitively.

Again, Series X could have fantastic visuals even while sharing a game with X1. A game like Crysis 3 demonstrated that between PC and PS360.

As I said before, Lockhart doesn't exist until MS officially says so. But speaking of this hypothetical sku, if it's purpose is to run the same games in 1080p, it would still require the same cpu; equal/a little less ram and only the gpu would be significantly weaker (and cheaper). Under those conditions, how could it possibly cost $200 less? Only $100 less is more realistic. And if there is a lot less ram and weaker cpu to the point where $200 less is possible, it would be a completely different system. If games aren't made for it and scaled up on series x, it would require downporting from series x instead.

Yeah, the only option that makes some sense is a $100 cheaper version that doesn't need devs porting games to it and sells to those that don't want/care for 4k.

Ideally Lockhart would have mostly the exact same specs as Series X. I feel the easiest compromises would be about 1/3 of GPU power (4TF vs 12TF), no disc drive and perhaps they can use less storage space depending on the expected size of games. Maybe they would sell it at a loss given digital reliance.

But maybe it wont happen at all.



Recently Completed
Doom 64
for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

DonFerrari said:
d21lewis said:

Depends on what your idea of winning is. Sales? Profits? Games? Power? Features? One could argue that every company won the 7th gen.

But let's be honest. The Wii won. 😉

Doesn't matter the metric, winner is still a single entity.

You see a race in the olympic, the one that finished first the 100m is the winner even if the 3rd place have made more money through sponsorship.

So yes Wii sold more on its gen, the reason a big portion don't consider it a winner is because they weren't competing with PS3 and X360 by admission of Nintendo and Sony themselves.

The flaw with your olympic analogy is Wii was first in sales and made the biggest profit.

Pretty sure PS3 lost money for Sony and 360 had the RROD problems.

Wii wasnt a direct competitor per se, but it certainly took potential sales from 360 and PS3. Especially in the casual market which was pretty significant at the time.



Recently Completed
Doom 64
for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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Radek said:
I'm not worried about launch month games being on X1, maybe Knack and Killzone Shadowfall could work on PS3 with downgrades but Sony chose to make it PS4 only instead.

However Infamous Second Son released in March 2014 was definitely not possible on PS3, that's why I'm worried 2021 Xbox games will suffer because of X1/X1S/X1X support.

The core gameplay of Infamous:SS wasnt above PS3 in my opinion. The graphics certainly were.

Continued X1 support doesent mean MS cant do something ambitious. I mean if MS wants to make something large in scale with tons of physics, Just Cause 3/4 showed its feasible even on a X1.

I mean people think Hellblade 2 wont work on X1 because its highly detailed and large in scale. Visuals can be scaled back and X1 has countless open world games. People have amneisa or something.



Recently Completed
Doom 64
for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

EricHiggin said:
Azzanation said:

Graphics arent everything.

Having the most powerful specs is not synonymous with only graphics matter.

Its notable when you consider Playstation and Xbox will share most of the same library though. There will be boasting about which platforms play the same game best.

Sony fans loved those debates before X1X. Then suddenly specs didnt really matter anymore.



Recently Completed
Doom 64
for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

eeeer no, they haven't said anything about releasing crossgen for two years after PS5 debut. Sure you may say several of their studios won't have games ready in the first 2 years, but that isn't the same thing.

Different strategies, simular results in the end.

Radek said:

Imagine a PC game being made for running on GTX 660 and i3 as minimum requirement and then imagine PC game being made for running with GTX 1060, SSD and Ryzen 5 as minimum requirement.

Even at 1440p or 4K which one do you think will have higher quality graphics and more complex AI and physics (despite of resolution)

And I was being generous with GTX 660 as Xbox One has something even less powerful, GTX 660 is PS4 level GPU.

I mean come on, it's 2020 and even $150 GTX 1650 Super is faster than PS4 Pro 4.2 Tflops GPU!

I'm playing Gears 5 and it runs great on my new RX 5700 XT, Ultra details and 4K I'm getting 60 fps, but if that game was designed with only Xbox One X in mind, I wouldn't be getting more than 30 fps in 4K on ultra and the game would look next gen already.

And Xbox One X is already less powerful than Lockhart even will be, I wish Xbox One X became the lowest available Xbox for 2020-2022 games.

So when games like God of War were made, it wasnt held back by PS4 hardware when RTX-2080 GPUs were on the market? God of War still turned out pretty and so did Gears 5, lets also add TLOU2. It doesn't seem like older limited hardware is affecting the bigger AAA game developments and companie's vision.

A good developer will create a good game regardless of console limitations and BOTW is a perfect example of that.

Games can always look better regardless if they choose to use the latest console.

That doesn't even make sense. God of War and TLOU2 were build from the ground up around the limitations of the ps4. If those games would also have been released on ps3, they would have been far less spectacular.

I mean, lets say Valve decided to release Half Life 3, and it would be completely optimized and only run on a RTX 2080 with SSD, just imagine what that would look like. Unfortunately, there are not many AAA developers left that make games that really push the latest pc hardware, instead pc gamers get the same experience as on consoles and all the extra horsepower goes to waste by simply raising the fps, resolution and some graphical setting that don't really add anything to the games. It will be the exact same thing with all of the exclusives on the Xbox SeriesX, while Sony will drop a couple of 1st party bombs that will probably make Halo Infinite look like a last gen game.   



Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

Doesn't matter the metric, winner is still a single entity.

You see a race in the olympic, the one that finished first the 100m is the winner even if the 3rd place have made more money through sponsorship.

So yes Wii sold more on its gen, the reason a big portion don't consider it a winner is because they weren't competing with PS3 and X360 by admission of Nintendo and Sony themselves.

The flaw with your olympic analogy is Wii was first in sales and made the biggest profit.

Pretty sure PS3 lost money for Sony and 360 had the RROD problems.

Wii wasnt a direct competitor per se, but it certainly took potential sales from 360 and PS3. Especially in the casual market which was pretty significant at the time.

Isn't flawed.

Would be like saying Sony/MS were competing on the 100m and Wii on the 400m. Wii winning and making the best mark ever on their event doesn't affect the fact of the dispute of Sony/MS.

But yes Wii was the most successful among the consoles and DS the most successful HW of the gen.

Mr Puggsly said:
EricHiggin said:

Having the most powerful specs is not synonymous with only graphics matter.

Its notable when you consider Playstation and Xbox will share most of the same library though. There will be boasting about which platforms play the same game best.

Sony fans loved those debates before X1X. Then suddenly specs didnt really matter anymore.

If the graphics isn't better the most powerful specs would be useless.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

goopy20 said:
Azzanation said:

Different strategies, simular results in the end.

So when games like God of War were made, it wasnt held back by PS4 hardware when RTX-2080 GPUs were on the market? God of War still turned out pretty and so did Gears 5, lets also add TLOU2. It doesn't seem like older limited hardware is affecting the bigger AAA game developments and companie's vision.

A good developer will create a good game regardless of console limitations and BOTW is a perfect example of that.

Games can always look better regardless if they choose to use the latest console.

That doesn't even make sense. God of War and TLOU2 were build from the ground up around the limitations of the ps4. If those games would also have been released on ps3, they would have been far less spectacular.

I mean, lets say Valve decided to release Half Life 3, and it would be completely optimized and only run on a RTX 2080 with SSD, just imagine what that would look like. Unfortunately, there are not many AAA developers left that make games that really push the latest pc hardware, instead pc gamers get the same experience as on consoles and all the extra horsepower goes to waste by simply raising the fps, resolution and some graphical setting that don't really add anything to the games. It will be the exact same thing with all of the exclusives on the Xbox SeriesX, while Sony will drop a couple of 1st party bombs that will probably make Halo Infinite look like a last gen game.   

On PS3 they would have been far less spectacular. On PS4 they would have been the same games since they were built around the limitations of PS4. We saw plenty of games this gen that were cross gen but the last gen versions were heavily neutered in ways other than graphics. Battlefield had lower player counts and modes missing. CoD had no SP. We see in sports titles they only get "legacy updates" which means nothing changes outside of rosters. Shadow of Mordor launched on last gen consoles without the Nemesis system. Titanfall had less of the Azure controlled grunts running around, even Microsoft's own Horizon 2 was essentially a different game on 360 than the Xbone version.

It's way too early to tell anything about this or get bent out of shape about it at all. The next one or two years of MGS games will be cross gen, which means it could literally just be 2020 games. And even if it spills into 2021, they could be games built for next gen in mind and then scaled afterwards to make an Xbone version possible. I mean look at what MS is doing with Flight Simulator. There is a console version planned, but they aren't gimping the PC version for the sake of Xbone. The version we get on console will just not be as advanced.

Now if we get into a later time frame than that and Microsoft is still releasing cross gen games and even the XSX versions don't have any significant advantages outside of graphics, then we'll have real issues and something worth grabbing pitchforks over.