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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

LudicrousSpeed on 13 January 2020
colafitte said:
Since The Leader, Shepard of XBOX fans, Phil Spencer became the boss at XBOX, They had told us......

- "Power is not that important" (when PS4 was considered more powerful than XBO)
- "Hardware sales don't matter" (when PS4 started selling 2x than XBO)
- "1st party single player games are not that important" (when they decided they wanted to bring game services like GamePass and GAAS games and cancelled games like Scalebound)
- "Power is very important" (when they announced XBO X)
- "1st party single player games are important" (when Sony started winning GOTY's and selling a lot and they started buying mid tier studios like Obsidian and Ninja Theory)
- "We don't want a face to face against PS" (now that they are selling less than competition)

I'm pretty sure that they will change the narrative the moment something changes, and they will have the nerve to act as they didn't say the opposite thing just a few months earlier. If they have a game that sells more than any other PS exclusive or if the console sells more than PS5 in even just a region, like USA or UK, they will suddenly change tactics....

Since last generation, XBOX division has been out of focus. Phil Spencer era, despite all the bought media behind and all their fanboys, has been a disaster for XBOX brand. Power and game services have not helped at all XBOX the last few years. Studios like Ninja Theory and Obsidian won't make new AAA for XBSX games at least, until 2022 or 2023. I'm so tired of hearing or seeing more about Phil Spencer every week or month than hearing about their games or their game devs. It's very telling.....

Not having only working XBSX games in 2020 and 2021 is not necessarily going to be a mistake, but games that can run on XBO from 2013 and the new console won't be as modern as they can be. They better have games that are at least GOTY contender, something that they didn't have in more than a decade....... And if PS5 has an exclusive game that is GOTY material during 2020 and 2021, well....., you all know what is going to happen.

XBOX is in a delicate situation, and don't get this the wrong way, I say XBOX, not Microsoft. Microsoft will be fine as always. In my opinion XBOX is going to become more and more irrelevant as time passes until Microsoft decides that they only want a software service like Gamepass that can be used in PC, mobiles and other consoles.

This convince me too, that XBSX is going to be more expensive than PS5 because they know they're not going to win the sales "war" against competition, and they only want a "premium console" sold at a high price that is able to sell 30M, 40M, maybe 50M with luck and still be able to have their XB Live audience paying on that platform while GamePass tries to enter in the mindset of PC and mobile gamers.

Will it work??? Only if the competition don't follow suit, because if they prove it works, Sony, the ones who brought PS Plus and PS Now first than XB doing nothing similar, will copy the same tactic, while they remain the king at everything else.

XBOX was great at the start of X360, they had their chance to become the next king, but they blew it, and i really don't know how they are going to reach a similar success like X360 era had, saleswise and profitwise.


When did The Xboss say first party games or power weren't important? Papa Phil has emphasized both since taking over. Most of what you're saying sounds like what the previous regime was saying. It's almost as if there was a complete shift in management following a horrific turn, and the new management has entirely different goals and ideas. I would hope there would be different messages coming from the new management. But maybe I'm wrong and he did say those things. Feel free to correct me with links.

Also most of what you're describing is just typical corporate PR? That Sony is not immune to? Remember when cross play was bad because of the kids? Remember when rumble was last gen tech because Sony was being sued but then they settled and hey, we all love rumble! Regarding sales, remember when they were uber important during the PS2 era but then during PS3 and especially during the Vita era, Sony stopped disclosing real numbers and sales didn't matter? Of course if Xbox has a huge first party hit or sells a ton of consoles they'll make PR about it. Just like Sony would and has. And if the opposite happens, they'll spin it or hide it, just like Sony would and has.

Bought media? That's cute I guess. This thread has been gold, Jerry. Gold!



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hiccupthehuman on 13 January 2020

I honestly don't mind too much. I never buy a console the first 2 years of a console's launch. Now this "No one gets left behind" approach means I'll get to still play the next games they release, and when the price of Xbox Series X goes down in a year or two I'll pick it up.

There is a lot of overreaction. Doesn't anyone remember the first 2 years of this console cycle? Just from the head I can think of: Alien: Isolation, Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor, Call of Duty: Ghost/Advanced Warfare/Black Ops III, The Evil Within, Dragon Age: Inquisition (2014 GOTYs), Rise of the Tomb Raider, Forza Horizon 2, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Watch_Dogs, Destiny, TitanFall as cross-gen. Even the best-selling game of the entire generation on both Xbox and PS4 is Grand Theft Auto V....

Now, can anyone honestly tell me that when any of these games came out, they didn't "feel" next-gen?
That they felt held-back by the 360/PS3?
Can anyone name me any games that really pushed the boundaries of the Xbox One or PS4 within the first 2 years? Maybe The Witcher 3, but that"s 1 game, and it released by 2015, almost 2 years after the console's launch. We all know it takes developers years to gradually unlock the potential of a console, and that the games get better over as the generation goes on.

Last edited by hiccupthehuman - on 13 January 2020

DonFerrari on 13 January 2020

From their previous interviews that was expected and is pretty reasonable and common, still I expect Sony to fast jump to next gen.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Mr Puggsly on 13 January 2020
goopy20 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I agree Infamous:SS and Killzone looked fantastic, but with vastly scaled back visuals I do believe games like them can work on PS3.

I think people forget how many ambitious games last gen had. Suddenly they cant handle open world action games and linear shooters?

You should see Assassin's Creed, Red Faction Guerilla, Bioshock games, etc. PS3 can handle pretty impressive stuff.

I completed both of those games you mentioned, there was nothing remarkable about them beyond visual polish.

If that's true then how come Ubisoft released 2 AC games in 2014 on the exact same day? AC Unity for ps4/XBO and AC Rogue for ps3/360. It's simply because AC Unity used a radically upgraded version of the game engine for Unity, which allowed for things like hundreds of NPCs on screen. Things that weren't possible to port to ps3/360.                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Like I said, not everything is scalable and can be ported. I mean why do you think Cyberpunk is not getting a release on Switch, even though they did port the Witcher 3?

It seemed like AC Unity was barely possible on the consoles they made it for. It ran like trash, had jarring pop in and the gameplay was basically the same.

The large crowds were neat, I assume not possible on last gen, but had no real significance to gameplay. I say this as someone who completed both games you mentioned.

I am simply suggesting Ubisoft could have made a version of AC Unity on 7th gen and capture the core gameplay just fine. The large crowds were really aesthetic.

AC Unity was actually a smaller scale game than previous entries. They put more detail inside buildings, but created a smaller world.



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yvanjean on 13 January 2020
goopy20 said:
yvanjean said:

Huge difference between Enhanced games and full consoles optimization. Halo Infinite and next Forza game aren't enhanced for the XSX, these game will simply be ported and available on older consoles. Halo & Forza team have known the final specs for XSX for a long time and these two games will be the center piece of showcasing what XSX can do. Let assume the 12 TF XSX and 9.2 TF PS5 rumors are true resulting in 30% increase power. Even if these game don't take advantage of XSX full consoles optimization, the game will still be way better then last gen and anything that could of been done on PS5 with 30% less power. 

Just look at optimization done for the Xbox one X, once you give the development team a chance to show what their game can do on better hardware they will push the new hardware in order to better showcase their game. Hence, why almost every game on Xbox one X received a patch to take advantage of the Xbox one X new hardware and not simply console enhanced. 

You really think that Microsoft first party studios are building next gen games to the specs of the OG Xbox and these games will be system enhanced by the XSX. Just look at the demo of Hellblade 2, the game is built for taking full advantage of XSX. Yet, it will be ported to the older consoles. 

Here is what you guys are missing Sony next gen games aren't coming to PS4 and PS4 Pro not due to hardware limitation but because Sony wants to push sell of PS5 hardware. 

Remind me again, what's the difference between a X1X patched game and an enhanced version? Maybe I'm wrong but isn't Forza Horizon 4 identical on XBX1, except that you can play it in 4k, or in performance mode at 60fps? 

With these next gen consoles it will be different as I'm sure not all games will be targeting native 4k and 60fps. Instead, we will probably see 1080p (or 1440p) and a locked 30fps in most cases. If those games also will have to run on Xone, it will simply limit the developers ambition and scope for those games. Of course Sony wants everyone to move on the ps5, but what's wrong with that? IMO the first wave of cross gen titles always kinda suck compared to the games that take a full leap to the next gen. GTA5 might be an exception here and is still be an amazing game, but it sure is a shame that they didn't release a GTA game this gen that was build from the ground up around current gen hardware. But at least GTA6 will likely skip current gen consoles.

I was referring to hardware enhanced vs patch enhanced games. 
Some backward compatible games can have noticeable benefits even without a patch on both the Xbox one & Xbox one X:

*better load time
*Less jaggers and freezing
*improved performance
*better frame rate if the game features unlock frame rate.
*texture filtering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYuvL6bO04Q


Patched enhanced games get much more improvement:
For example Forza 4: 4k, HDR, 30/60FPS; An option for enhanced visuals at 30 FPS or 60 FPS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_One_X_enhanced_games



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goopy20 on 13 January 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
goopy20 said:

If that's true then how come Ubisoft released 2 AC games in 2014 on the exact same day? AC Unity for ps4/XBO and AC Rogue for ps3/360. It's simply because AC Unity used a radically upgraded version of the game engine for Unity, which allowed for things like hundreds of NPCs on screen. Things that weren't possible to port to ps3/360.                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Like I said, not everything is scalable and can be ported. I mean why do you think Cyberpunk is not getting a release on Switch, even though they did port the Witcher 3?

It seemed like AC Unity was barely possible on the consoles they made it for. It ran like trash, had jarring pop in and the gameplay was basically the same.

The large crowds were neat, I assume not possible on last gen, but had no real significance to gameplay. I say this as someone who completed both games you mentioned.

I am simply suggesting Ubisoft could have made a version of AC Unity on 7th gen and capture the core gameplay just fine. The large crowds were really aesthetic.

AC Unity was actually a smaller scale game than previous entries. They put more detail inside buildings, but created a smaller world.

It's true that AC Unity wasn't great, had a lot of technical problems and the crowds didn't add much to the game. But that still doesn't change the fact that they chose to make two different games in order to support ps3/360 and make the full next gen leap to ps4/Xone with Unity. And like I said, why do you think there isn't going to be a Cyberpunk port for the Switch, when they did port the Witcher 3?  



yvanjean on 13 January 2020
goopy20 said:

With these next gen consoles it will be different as I'm sure not all games will be targeting native 4k and 60fps. Instead, we will probably see 1080p (or 1440p) and a locked 30fps in most cases. If those games also will have to run on Xone, it will simply limit the developers ambition and scope for those games. Of course Sony wants everyone to move on the ps5, but what's wrong with that? IMO the first wave of cross gen titles always kinda suck compared to the games that take a full leap to the next gen. GTA5 might be an exception here and is still be an amazing game, but it sure is a shame that they didn't release a GTA game this gen that was build from the ground up around current gen hardware. But at least GTA6 will likely skip current gen consoles.

I don't know where you guys are getting your information but game development is done on X86 infrastructure and are initially built on some of the best high end PC with top of the line specs. The developers then scale back some of the graphic and cap performance in order to have the game run on console specs and maximize what can be achieve with the console hardware limitation. The game built from the grounds up for a specific consoles can benefit from some minor improvement because the console limitation were always considered during development but there a limit on how much you can push the hardware. Just like Microsoft "secret sauce" never really pan out on the OG Xbox. At the end of day you limited by GPU, CPU and Rams. 

Well there many scenario that I can think of why it's wrong to force someone to move to next gen:

1. Imagine someone just upgrade to PS4 Pro or Xbox One X, they just made an investment and don't want to purchase a new console right away.
2. You could simply can't afford to make the switch and will be left out. You could not have the money or be younger and parent won't purchase a new console.
3. What if all you have in your house is a bunch of 1080P TV and you don't have any TV or Screen that can take advantage of the next gen consoles.
4. Microsoft is talking about forward compatible games VS Sony's Cross Gen play. If you were to buy Halo on Microsoft consoles, you now own it on all the consoles Vs Sony's Cross gen play that will allow PS4 and PS5 to play online together. But, lets say you bought Last of Us 2 on PS4, you would have to purchase the PS5 version when Sony release the new consoles. (Lot's of rumors so let's just hope that Sony is forced to match Microsoft forward compatible)

At the end of the day it's better to simply have more option, it's also better to wait a few years before committing to a new consoles, you will get more exclusives & can expect price drop on older games and new consoles.  Microsoft solution is actually very consumer friendly. Microsoft unlike Sony as a huge presence on PC, launch their Xcloud service and benefit from subscription service like Xbox live and Gamepass. They benefits regardless where you play. Sony on the other made huge financial investment on the PS5 and doesn't have all of the other source of revenues like Microsoft. During transition consumers will stop or have less incentive to buying games and console for PS4 because they know that there better version on PS5 and because of the smaller PS5 install base, it's harder to recoup the invest made to make PS5 exclusive. Slow transition for Sony would be very bad, they lost Billions of dollar on the start of PS3 and they surely don't want history to repeat itself. Unfortunately for Sony the competition is stronger this time around and doesn't play by their rules. 

Last edited by yvanjean - on 13 January 2020

goopy20 on 13 January 2020
yvanjean said:
goopy20 said:

With these next gen consoles it will be different as I'm sure not all games will be targeting native 4k and 60fps. Instead, we will probably see 1080p (or 1440p) and a locked 30fps in most cases. If those games also will have to run on Xone, it will simply limit the developers ambition and scope for those games. Of course Sony wants everyone to move on the ps5, but what's wrong with that? IMO the first wave of cross gen titles always kinda suck compared to the games that take a full leap to the next gen. GTA5 might be an exception here and is still be an amazing game, but it sure is a shame that they didn't release a GTA game this gen that was build from the ground up around current gen hardware. But at least GTA6 will likely skip current gen consoles.

I don't know where you guys are getting your information but game development is done on X86 infrastructure and are initially built on some of the best high end PC with top of the line specs. The developers then scale back some of the graphic and cap performance in order to have the game run on console specs and maximize what can be achieve with the console hardware limitation. The game built from the grounds up for a specific consoles can benefit from some minor improvement because the console limitation were always considered during development but there a limit on how much you can push the hardware. Just like Microsoft "secret sauce" never really pan out on the OG Xbox. At the end of day you limited by GPU, CPU and Rams. 

Well there many scenario that I can think of why it's wrong to force someone to move to next gen:

1. Imagine someone just upgrade to PS4 Pro or Xbox One X, they just made an investment and don't want to purchase a new console right away.
2. You could simply can't afford to make the switch and will be left out. You could not have the money or be younger and parent won't purchase a new console.
3. What if all you have in your house is a bunch of 1080P TV and you don't have any TV or Screen that can take advantage of the next gen consoles.
4. Microsoft is talking about forward compatible games VS Sony's Cross Gen play. If you were to buy Halo on Microsoft consoles, you now own it on all the consoles Vs Sony's Cross gen play that will allow PS4 and PS5 to play online together. But, lets say you bought Last of Us 2 on PS4, you would have to purchase the PS5 version when Sony release the new consoles. (Lot's of rumors so let's just hope that Sony is forced to match Microsoft forward compatible)

At the end of the day it's better to simply have more option, it's also better to wait a few years before committing to a new consoles, you will get more exclusives & can expect price drop on older games and new consoles.  Microsoft solution is actually very consumer friendly. Microsoft unlike Sony as a huge presence on PC, launch their Xcloud service and benefit from subscription service like Xbox live and Gamepass. They benefits regardless where you play. Sony on the other made huge financial investment on the PS5 and doesn't have all of the other source of revenues like Microsoft. During transition consumers will stop or have less incentive to buying games and console for PS4 because they know that there better version on PS5 and because of the smaller PS5 install base, it's harder to recoup the invest made to make PS5 exclusive. Slow transition for Sony would be very bad, they lost Billions of dollar on the start of PS3 and they surely don't want history to repeat itself. Unfortunately for Sony the competition is stronger this time around and doesn't play by their rules. 

I agree that it sucks if you just bought a XB1X or ps4 pro, but nobody can force anyone to buy a next gen console. If you can't afford it, then just wait a few years till the prices drop. But there are plenty of people who can't wait to give MS or Sony their money and buy a next gen console to play next gen games. And no, next gen games don't mean the exact same games we are playing now but just in a higher resolution and fps. I want to see more complex level design, better ai, physics and a boost in overall graphical fidelity with shiny raytracing on top. With current gen they couldn't really deliver on their promise because of the crappy jaguar cpu, but the specs of these next gen consoles are pretty damn impressive. Not saying this will be possible on next gen consoles but it sure as hell will not, if it had to run on 10 year old consoles as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecerIIClbMA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnuWG2I2QCY

Last edited by goopy20 - on 13 January 2020

Azzanation on 13 January 2020
DonFerrari said:
From their previous interviews that was expected and is pretty reasonable and common, still I expect Sony to fast jump to next gen.

Sony's appoach is no different to MS's when you think about it.

Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch etc all won't have games ready for PS5 until years after launch (Aside from there ports) Same with MS, once all there 1st batch of games come out from there internal studios, it will take atleast 2 years for there 2nd batch of games to release and thats when the Series X is built in mind. Same goes for Sony's studios who recently had games released.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 13 January 2020

yvanjean on 13 January 2020
goopy20 said:

I agree that it sucks if you just bought a XB1X or ps4 pro, but nobody can force anyone to buy a next gen console. If you can't afford it, then just wait a few years till the prices drop. But there are plenty of people who can't wait to give MS or Sony their money and buy a next gen console to play next gen games. And no, next gen games don't mean the exact same games we are playing now but just in a higher resolution and fps. I want to see more complex level design, better ai, physics and a boost in overall graphical fidelity with shiny raytracing on top. With current gen they couldn't really deliver on their promise because of the crappy jaguar cpu, but the specs of these next gen consoles are pretty damn impressive. Not saying this will be possible on next gen consoles but it sure as hell will not, if it had to run on 10 year old consoles as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecerIIClbMA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnuWG2I2QCY

At the end of the day PS4 and PS5 are using X86 infrastructure to make game. There are so many people on the thread that believe all of Sony PS5 exclusive could not be ported to Ps4/PS4 Pro. I believe that to be false, beside you probably won't see true next exclusive for a few years. Sony keep touting an unannounced feature, remains to be seen how game changing that features is going to be! 

Well I doubt you will see much of it for launch title. I can't wait to see if what they did with Halo infinite, they have a lot to prove since it's coming from the same studio that gave us the mediocre Halo 5 single player. How much does Complex Ai and level Design come from hardware improvement vs Development team getting better at their craft? Probably a mix of both.  

Take the tech demo you just shown and scale back the effect, graphic and performance.... and both demo could run on a PS4 & Xbox one.