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Forums - Politics Discussion - United Nations report on the US

Megiddo said:
epicurean said:

The line I'm referring to is people who get enough back to cover their payroll taxes.

That's what $0 taxable income means. You owe no taxes so you get all the money withheld back.

If your AGI minus deductions is greater than 0 then you are paying taxes. It's simple math. If you are not getting everything that has been withheld then you are paying taxes.

That is a simple way of looking at it. There are many other factors though and credits that affect it as well. Many people can have an above $0 AGI and get back not only everything they paid in, but even more. Some common credits that result in this are the Earned Income Credit and whatever they name the credits for college kids.



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Teeqoz said:
DonFerrari said:

Tax is part of the inequality issue, not even the main one, and reducing tax (since it isn't the sole cause) doesn't assure end of inequality since you won't control all other factors.

You didn't answer why you asked about a free market in Scandinavia, and you also didn't explain why inequality has been increasing despite taxes in the US decreasing. Sure, you could argue that it's due to other factors, but when that statistics show the opposite correlation of what you are suggesting, it doesn't exactly help to strengthen your claim.

Sorry if I didn't see you asking why I asked about free market. I asked because most people think that Scandinavia is a socialist paradise with government control, when it actually have a lot of free market but heavy taxes. Last I remember also, most of the Scandinavia have very healthy balance of trade with much of that money also supporting their social programs (and some criticism that their finances is eroding through time).

Tax decreasing in absolute also doesn't account for different taxes and its weight on different classes. And as I said since there are other variables, you can't assure that if tax reduced then inequality should as well (because you would also have to prove that true on the opposite for every other country... Brazil per example had tax raising and inequality raising in the last couple years). The use of that tax for the powerful (which was already mentioned in my previous posts) is much more impactful.

epicurean said:
Megiddo said:
I'll use my own taxes.

My AGI was $29,000. My taxable income was $18,600

My taxes withhelf from my paycheck last year was $3,700. I was given a refund of $1,500.

What does that mean? I paid $2,200 in federal taxes. I did not "get it all back"

Looks to me you are very close to the line - It used to be 51% but now its closer to 43% based on what I just looked up. Also, as I said, you do still have to pay into SS. And while most everyone in that bottom group make up all the payroll tax with credits, some towards the top end of it don't quite get there.

I hadn't looked up where the "line" was lately, for that, I admit I was wrong. However, the widespread belief among many that the rich aren't paying enough and we tax the poor too much, to me, seems like complete hogwash.

In Brazil it is somewhat true, but that is because our tax system is very complex and there is a lot of tax into products, so even though most of the country doesn't pay income tax, they pay a lot on others.

massimus said:
The fact that the US probably paid for all of this is even more funny. I would support the US leaving the UN. What a waste of money. I like it when Nicki Haley is up there talking shit to all of those people though, I would support her as the first female president. I would say almost all of that boils down to the massive failure of our public education system. We spend more per kid than anyone on that planet, the failure is not the budget. Academia has been ruined on all levels, ignorant shit taught by ignorant people. Generally of course, enough to make a significant impact. Just unusually stupid people with no common reason.

Socialism is just like that... if money is badly managed and results in bad situation, as you exposed on education, their solution is throw more money on the problem and pray it will suddenly work out.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

massimus said:
The fact that the US probably paid for all of this is even more funny. I would support the US leaving the UN. What a waste of money. I like it when Nicki Haley is up there talking shit to all of those people though, I would support her as the first female president. I would say almost all of that boils down to the massive failure of our public education system. We spend more per kid than anyone on that planet, the failure is not the budget. Academia has been ruined on all levels, ignorant shit taught by ignorant people. Generally of course, enough to make a significant impact. Just unusually stupid people with no common reason.

The problem is the education system in the US.
In the US the education system is a industry whose goal is to not to "break" even, but be profitable.

Most of the rest of the world it works differntly.... and its apparently ALOT more effective.



irstupid said:
Megiddo said:

That's what $0 taxable income means. You owe no taxes so you get all the money withheld back.

If your AGI minus deductions is greater than 0 then you are paying taxes. It's simple math. If you are not getting everything that has been withheld then you are paying taxes.

That is a simple way of looking at it. There are many other factors though and credits that affect it as well. Many people can have an above $0 AGI and get back not only everything they paid in, but even more. Some common credits that result in this are the Earned Income Credit and whatever they name the credits for college kids.

True, I guess I should say if AGI minus deductions is greater zero and the percentage owed in taxes is more than your tax credits then you are paying taxes.



JRPGfan said:
massimus said:
The fact that the US probably paid for all of this is even more funny. I would support the US leaving the UN. What a waste of money. I like it when Nicki Haley is up there talking shit to all of those people though, I would support her as the first female president. I would say almost all of that boils down to the massive failure of our public education system. We spend more per kid than anyone on that planet, the failure is not the budget. Academia has been ruined on all levels, ignorant shit taught by ignorant people. Generally of course, enough to make a significant impact. Just unusually stupid people with no common reason.

The problem is the education system in the US.
In the US the education system is a industry whose goal is to not to "break" even, but be profitable.

Most of the rest of the world it works differntly.... and its apparently ALOT more effective.

That happened with the nationalizing of debt. Once you have the blank check of the biggest economy in the world behind you, suddenly the cost of text books and tuition goes up. It's predictable stuff. You used to be able to go to Harvard for 20 thousand. Government involvement doesn't always work out for the best especially in America which the system is stacked against it, the limitations lead to secret abuses.



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If only we can see all the presidential sponsors like how they have them labeled all over a NASCAR.



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Ljink96 said:
The richest country and the poorest at the same time. Sad as hell.

Yeah it's pretty terrible when you think you got such a massive amount of people going into debt to try and buy an education, ending up in severe debt because they suffered in an accident and have no way to pay for healthcare to stop from losing a limb or so... while on the other side of the table you have people with billions looking at how they can alter laws regarding internet and TV so that they can make even more money from the population as a whole.

 

Sad times when what was once referred to as the 1% is more close to the 0.001% as you have millions of people bordering on poverty for a boardroom of people who don't understand what it means to be poor, never have in their life time as they're born into money and never will know it in their whole existence on the planet.



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

Good, for a country that started out pretty shitty its fitting that it ends up shitty. The bad guys won this time guys, not even this great country, in concept, could stand against the powers of greed and corruption, thoes 2 forces are just too op.

Last edited by loy310 - on 11 June 2018

JRPGfan said:
massimus said:
The fact that the US probably paid for all of this is even more funny. I would support the US leaving the UN. What a waste of money. I like it when Nicki Haley is up there talking shit to all of those people though, I would support her as the first female president. I would say almost all of that boils down to the massive failure of our public education system. We spend more per kid than anyone on that planet, the failure is not the budget. Academia has been ruined on all levels, ignorant shit taught by ignorant people. Generally of course, enough to make a significant impact. Just unusually stupid people with no common reason.

The problem is the education system in the US.
In the US the education system is a industry whose goal is to not to "break" even, but be profitable.

Most of the rest of the world it works differntly.... and its apparently ALOT more effective.

Perhaps getting rid of the dept of education isn't all that terrible idea. Seems like we were doing better when it was left up to states. 



Owner of PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Switch, PS Vita, and 3DS

SpokenTruth said:
DonFerrari said:

When you study economy you'll see how good of an outcome you have from high taxes on rich... I'll tell you the basic outcomes, higher prices (because they'll roll the increases to the product price),

Wouldn't that only matter if they are personally liable for corporate taxes such as with an S-corp? Most US companies are C-corps meaning the company and the employees are taxed separately.  How does raising the income taxes on employees lead to an increase price of goods and services?

Or did you mean increased corporate taxes do that?

When people say raise the tax on the rich, when you are talking personal tax on companies you are talking about CEO, owner, shareholders, etc. So when let's say you tax bill gates more for the money he makes in US, he can either make investments in other countries with lesser taxes, increase the price of the products in current market to keep the same return, or other measures that will in the end be worse for the poor.

This desire to tax people to transfer money is quite dangerous and toxic. Because usually everyone advocating for it is thinking it's other people richer than him that will pay for it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."