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Forums - General Discussion - Millionaire to Millennials: Stop Buying Avocado Toast If You Want to Buy a Home

Nymeria said:
VGPolyglot said:

We live in a consumer-based economy though. If everyone started saving their money we'd go into a recession.

I wasn't suggesting saving 50% of your income.

Setting aside 10% for savings and 90% for spending would a major improvement for many people.  Right now a large number of Americans save 1-2% if they do at all.

Savings can be divided into three categories, short terms "rainy day" fund, long term savings plan, and retirement plan.

Rainy day is a set amount of money you want to have, my suggestion was two months minimum of bills.  Let's say that is $3000 for someone to avoid issues like a hot water heater bursting or replacing car tires.  You are spending that money, it is set aside for a purpose.  If you're lucky and never have rainy days then you can stop allocating funds to it and spend it.

Long term is being able to save up for house or car because these saving are building to spending.  Doing this puts you in a far better position and helps you live within means.

Retirement investment account is savings, but the money serves a purpose in the economy, it goes to companies and grows wealth.  For many people these days can expect to live into their 70s and 80s so if you want to retire at 65 like most have to figure how to live those last 5 to 25 years of your life.

Spending does move an economy, but it isn't sustainable and can create bubbles that lead to recessions like we saw in 2008 with housing.  We were so desperate to sell houses they were sold in a way that people who could not afford them had them and then were foreclosed on when the payments ramped up.  If you had a system where 40% down payment was required you'd have fewer home owners, but the market would be solid and less predictable.  It's a balance in a society how much we promote growth or sustainability.  I think growth has been pushed for so long that we live way beyond our capacities and another recession seems inevitable in coming years.

Agree with most you said, would only say that 30% saving would be a good compromise, making like you said a part for rainy days (you saving that once just keep it unmoved with the amount that should go there going to long term or retirement). And depending of the country don't save for a house or car, keep that invested and pay rent..

Here you can have something like 10-15% annual interest on your saving if invested on safe means. So if you save 300k for housing that would net you 30-45k annually, while the rent of a property of this value would be around 20-25k annually. And in the case of the investment it is liquid and fast to move if you need while the house if you go on a finnancial problem is a very hard moving item.

While in USA it is like the opposite, the safe investment generating 2% a year while rent is quite high so buying a house takes precedence. Unfortunately people put a lot of other priorities in front of it and will live a life of debts.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

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I am a millennial and I agree that some of us spend stupid amounts of cash on eating out. But stagnated wages is what is killing us, and in many regards, we have baby boomers to blame for it. I am just gonna leave this here, for the next time a baby boomer feels like criticizing us: http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millennials/



LipeJJ said:
Ganoncrotch said:

I wouldn't agree with this logic, I mean you can eat steak every night and it'll cost you around 12-15e per meal, do a bit of cooking and make something cheap and cheerful like an omelette will cost you .26c if using 2 eggs slightly more if adding a slice of ham/cheese. That's the difference of 14.50 per day for your main meal. in a week that's a saving of 100e just on a single meal time. Trade in your 2 costa each day for a homemade java and you're talking about 70e again, so yeah if you are buying poorly each week you will be down 170e over someone who watches what they eat.

No, I mean... if you have to save that small amount of money (and plan stuff on this level) to buy a house/apartment, you're already screwed. This is not living... lol.

It's the small expenses that cost people the most. Not the big ones.



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DonFerrari said: 

Agree with most you said, would only say that 30% saving would be a good compromise, making like you said a part for rainy days (you saving that once just keep it unmoved with the amount that should go there going to long term or retirement). And depending of the country don't save for a house or car, keep that invested and pay rent..

Here you can have something like 10-15% annual interest on your saving if invested on safe means. So if you save 300k for housing that would net you 30-45k annually, while the rent of a property of this value would be around 20-25k annually. And in the case of the investment it is liquid and fast to move if you need while the house if you go on a finnancial problem is a very hard moving item.

While in USA it is like the opposite, the safe investment generating 2% a year while rent is quite high so buying a house takes precedence. Unfortunately people put a lot of other priorities in front of it and will live a life of debts.

I don't disagree, it is more a "Walk before you run" trying to help people plan finances.  When someone never saves it is an accomplishment to get them to set aside even $10 a week for starters just to get the idea in their head.  As a culture we are just not good at it, which is why many companies take the money out of the paycheck for retirement plans. If it was something people had to pay into on their own, they wouldn't do it nearly as much.

The challenge is balancing what is right in front of someone and what is long down the road over the horizon.  For example, in the US when you buy a home can pay for it over 15, 20, or 30 years. What is the most popular? 30 years, because it allows for the lowest monthly payment.  Of course in the long run it costs tens of thousands of dollars more in interest payments, and you'll be paying it off right up until retirement.  

Your 20s and 30s set your financial life for most people.  With proper planning you don't need to sacrifice much and will be set in your old age.  Every stumble such as forms of debt, interest, and penalties puts you in a deeper hole.  I foresee a lot of people having to work until the day they die due to poor planning.



One can always skip the house.... that means more money for avocados.



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Nymeria said:
DonFerrari said: 

Agree with most you said, would only say that 30% saving would be a good compromise, making like you said a part for rainy days (you saving that once just keep it unmoved with the amount that should go there going to long term or retirement). And depending of the country don't save for a house or car, keep that invested and pay rent..

Here you can have something like 10-15% annual interest on your saving if invested on safe means. So if you save 300k for housing that would net you 30-45k annually, while the rent of a property of this value would be around 20-25k annually. And in the case of the investment it is liquid and fast to move if you need while the house if you go on a finnancial problem is a very hard moving item.

While in USA it is like the opposite, the safe investment generating 2% a year while rent is quite high so buying a house takes precedence. Unfortunately people put a lot of other priorities in front of it and will live a life of debts.

I don't disagree, it is more a "Walk before you run" trying to help people plan finances.  When someone never saves it is an accomplishment to get them to set aside even $10 a week for starters just to get the idea in their head.  As a culture we are just not good at it, which is why many companies take the money out of the paycheck for retirement plans. If it was something people had to pay into on their own, they wouldn't do it nearly as much.

The challenge is balancing what is right in front of someone and what is long down the road over the horizon.  For example, in the US when you buy a home can pay for it over 15, 20, or 30 years. What is the most popular? 30 years, because it allows for the lowest monthly payment.  Of course in the long run it costs tens of thousands of dollars more in interest payments, and you'll be paying it off right up until retirement.  

Your 20s and 30s set your financial life for most people.  With proper planning you don't need to sacrifice much and will be set in your old age.  Every stumble such as forms of debt, interest, and penalties puts you in a deeper hole.  I foresee a lot of people having to work until the day they die due to poor planning.

The issue though is that the minimum wage is actually lower than the costs of living, so millions of people aren't even able to make enough money for the bare minimum, let alone even thinking about saving money:

https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/09/mapping-the-difference-between-minimum-wage-and-cost-of-living/404644/



Delayed gratification

Interestingly, the children who were best able to delay gratification subsequently did better in school and had fewer behavioral problems than the children who could only resist eating the cookie for a few minutes—and, further, ended up on average with SAT scores that were 210 points higher. As adults, the high-delay children completed college at higher rates than the other children and then went on to earn higher incomes. In contrast, the children who had the most trouble delaying gratification had higher rates of incarceration as adults and were more likely to struggle with drug and alcohol addiction.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/happiness-in-world/201207/the-power-delaying-gratification

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo4WF3cSd9Q



VGPolyglot said: 

The issue though is that the minimum wage is actually lower than the costs of living, so millions of people aren't even able to make enough money for the bare minimum, let alone even thinking about saving money:

https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/09/mapping-the-difference-between-minimum-wage-and-cost-of-living/404644/

Yes, stagnate wages coupled with increased debt has greatly reduced savings.  It is possible even if your situation is bleak enough that it isn't an option.  I know children of immigrants for example where their parents poured everything into them. They had zero illusions of moving up the social ladder, but through education they believed their children could.

I will say there is a case to be made about how salaries are distributed and what we are going to do as mechanization removes more and more low level jobs.  It has been floated for a universal basic income in the future as the number of jobs you need humans for dwindles.  The thought process is that you have to have a consumer base or could see stagnation or even a full scale revolt if it reaches depression levels.



jonager said:
I am a millennial and I agree that some of us spend stupid amounts of cash on eating out. But stagnated wages is what is killing us, and in many regards, we have baby boomers to blame for it. I am just gonna leave this here, for the next time a baby boomer feels like criticizing us: http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millennials/

Sorry man, but much more important than earning more ("stagnate wage") is to spend wisely and invest most.

Nymeria said:
DonFerrari said: 

Agree with most you said, would only say that 30% saving would be a good compromise, making like you said a part for rainy days (you saving that once just keep it unmoved with the amount that should go there going to long term or retirement). And depending of the country don't save for a house or car, keep that invested and pay rent..

Here you can have something like 10-15% annual interest on your saving if invested on safe means. So if you save 300k for housing that would net you 30-45k annually, while the rent of a property of this value would be around 20-25k annually. And in the case of the investment it is liquid and fast to move if you need while the house if you go on a finnancial problem is a very hard moving item.

While in USA it is like the opposite, the safe investment generating 2% a year while rent is quite high so buying a house takes precedence. Unfortunately people put a lot of other priorities in front of it and will live a life of debts.

I don't disagree, it is more a "Walk before you run" trying to help people plan finances.  When someone never saves it is an accomplishment to get them to set aside even $10 a week for starters just to get the idea in their head.  As a culture we are just not good at it, which is why many companies take the money out of the paycheck for retirement plans. If it was something people had to pay into on their own, they wouldn't do it nearly as much.

The challenge is balancing what is right in front of someone and what is long down the road over the horizon.  For example, in the US when you buy a home can pay for it over 15, 20, or 30 years. What is the most popular? 30 years, because it allows for the lowest monthly payment.  Of course in the long run it costs tens of thousands of dollars more in interest payments, and you'll be paying it off right up until retirement.  

Your 20s and 30s set your financial life for most people.  With proper planning you don't need to sacrifice much and will be set in your old age.  Every stumble such as forms of debt, interest, and penalties puts you in a deeper hole.  I foresee a lot of people having to work until the day they die due to poor planning.

I do agree it isn't part of the culture (at least in Brazil) to do any saving at all, and when people do they put on saving account that is "safe" while generating less than inflation is eating. So sure showing how saving is important and that anyone can do it, while starting slow is good.

Well I have done the shortest plan available (17 years) because I couldn't compromise more than 30% of my wage on it, but always can pay up in advance and lower the time... have done it in a way that after paying it for 6 years I only have another 4 to pay... which if knew the money invested earned more than the interest I pay on the house I would have saved it for when really necessary.

And yes poor planing is a kick in the ass, and the reason I try to counsel my team over finance and was happy when a senior director started a special class on lunch to teach the young employees. 

Nymeria said:
VGPolyglot said: 

The issue though is that the minimum wage is actually lower than the costs of living, so millions of people aren't even able to make enough money for the bare minimum, let alone even thinking about saving money:

https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/09/mapping-the-difference-between-minimum-wage-and-cost-of-living/404644/

Yes, stagnate wages coupled with increased debt has greatly reduced savings.  It is possible even if your situation is bleak enough that it isn't an option.  I know children of immigrants for example where their parents poured everything into them. They had zero illusions of moving up the social ladder, but through education they believed their children could.

I will say there is a case to be made about how salaries are distributed and what we are going to do as mechanization removes more and more low level jobs.  It has been floated for a universal basic income in the future as the number of jobs you need humans for dwindles.  The thought process is that you have to have a consumer base or could see stagnation or even a full scale revolt if it reaches depression levels.

Most of times people aren't aware or willing of the sacrifices they have to make either for themselves or the next to grow....

My great grandparents were slave children, but they fought hard on the farm to have as much as their son as possible attend school to have at least 4th grade and know how to read and do simple math, with my grandfather finishing high school on technical level (the other grandfather worked as construction employee, my grandmother was a clerk in a store turned housewife and the other teacher turned housewife). Those grandfathers pushed their son to university in the case of my father and high school in the case of my mother family (although her and my aunt from 7 children family attended university and 3 didn't finish high school because they didn't want - one of those have done it later). My bother, sister and all direct cousins have university degree.

It wasn't easy, it wasn't fast, but at each generation the family moved higher.

And you see this on immigrants, they start at the absolute zero, sometimes don't know the language and on average move faster and further developing their families (even without formal jobs) than settled families that believe they are just not meant to thrive because they were born poor.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

I've stated before, my wife is an apartment manager. About half of her tenants pay rent. The other have get government assistance. It would blow your mind to see these people with "no income" somehow having the best clothes, shoes, and hairstyles. Most of them even have cable TV and other luxuries.

"Because we're not rich, we don't deserve nice things?"
I want to reply, "Fuck no! If you can afford this stuff, you can afford to pay rent!" But, I digress. People need to get it in their mind that instant gratification fades quickly. I make a great living and yes, I splurge a bit, but I make sure the important stuff is taken care of first.