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Forums - Politics Discussion - Donald Trump: How Do You Feel about Him Now? (Poll)

 

Last November,

I supported him and I still do - Americas 91 15.77%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Americas 16 2.77%
 
I supported him and I still do - Europe 37 6.41%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Europe 7 1.21%
 
I supported him and I still do - Asia 6 1.04%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Asia 1 0.17%
 
I supported him and I still do - RoW 15 2.60%
 
I supported him and I now don't - RoW 2 0.35%
 
I didn't support him and still don't. 373 64.64%
 
I didn't support him and now do. 29 5.03%
 
Total:577
jason1637 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

No, it sends a message: "We do what we want, and we don't care about anybody else", since, while no one like Kim, nuking him would be something nobody would want, either.

It will also make many people fear the US. And like a Dog that's cornered, even if he has not the slightest chance he will bite. So having people around the world fearing the might and insolence of the US would maybe send a negative message to Dictators, but more certainly breed terrorists out of fear of what the US could do to them.

@bolded: so you wouldn't mind either if France nukes the white house when Trump sends his nth threats against the EU? Since after having set that precedent you're talking about this should be fair game, too.

1. I disagree, we're not just nuking for no reason. We're nuking them because they are a big problem and other approaches have not worked. I'm sure it woild get lots of support.

2. There would be no need to fear the US unless you're a dictator. 

3. If Trump threatened the EU multiple times with nukes and became a dictator then yeah France would be in the right to eradicate him. But his threats to the EU so far are not on that level.

CommandoII said:

Yeah,  I have to agree with Spoken and Boffer on this one, big time.  That is waaaaaay to hamfisted of an approach and an incomplete diplomacy strategy, but I guess that's besides the point.

  To be brief, the international community could support us in an incursion based upon A LOT of approval and likely a nod from the U.N.
If we did what you are proposing, NO matter the outcome, the International Community would barbarize our name and call for our flag.

The worst the international community would do is condemn our actions. I don't expect anything more besides that since they would be glad we got rid of Kim.

1. It would not. At all. Already simply because a nuke doesn't just kill 1 person, but levels a city, meaning you'll kill many civilians along with him. And you are doing the same old problematic thinking of the US military and Rumsfeld: The wars itself were not the problem in Afghanistan and Irak, but the situation degraded because the US had no strategy on what to do afterwards. It is that what created ISIS and all the problems in Irak btw, killing the dictator but having no strategy what to do afterwards. That's the reason why Bush senior didn't depose Saddam, he knew it would destabilize the whole region, but his son didn't believe it. Kim might be gone, but what will happen next? Will the next in line take the office and continue with business as usual, except now having much more legitimization by the public after that action? Will a Generalissimo take the reign and swear revenge on the US and South Korea (since the south is supported by the US) and maybe nuke Seoul in retaliation? What will China, who still is at least nominally allied to North Korea, do? That's the problem with your approach, you don't stop a minute and think of the damn consequences of your action.

2. In case you don't know, the US are already feared outside of countries with dictators simply because of their overwhelming military might, their past of toppling presidents to install their puppet regime, and simply what can happen if an absolute madman takes office as president. And using nukes for what is essentially and legally an assassination of a diplomat (which would kill thousands, if not millions of civilians along with it) would make the whole world much rather fear the US than thank them for removing Kim. It's much more likely that the EU for instance would put the US at the same level as Russia and China and cut many ties with them.



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It's sad that yall seeing that NK continuing to walk all over us and our leaders are too scared to do anything because they care too much about what other countries would thin.



SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:
It's sad that yall seeing that NK continuing to walk all over us and our leaders are too scared to do anything because they care too much about what other countries would thin.

Can you elaborate what you mean by waling all over us?  Because I don't see any walking being done on us by NK.  If you're talking about Trump...you can go to the Trump thread for thoughts on that.

They keep building up their nuclear arsenal and treating the US like a joke. It's a disgrace that they have been able to get away with this all this time. Also the whole Trump and Kim situation is a disaster thats why i brought this all in the Trump thread since they recently just had a meeting.



jason1637 said:
The whole NK situation is a disaster. Why cant we just nuke their bomb sites?

So many reasons.

For starters, no one knows for certain how many bomb sites there are or which are armed and ready to fire.  They have numerous well-hidden attack sites near the border and countless hiding places that cannot be confirmed.  It wouldn't be so much a tactical strike but a shot in the dark.  You'd basically have to glass the entire country just to be sure.  

But even if a tactical nuclear strike were possible, China, Russia, Japan and South Korea are all in range of radioactive fallout that could easily be carried away in the atmosphere or by sea.  That costs a megaton of bargaining power in all future diplomatic relations, especially if they mean to extract the cost of cleanup and medical care through trade deals.

South Koreans are in a particularly tough spot as 4 Million of them are in weapons range of any North Korean retaliation and if NK pushes the Big Red Button in its retaliation, no nation is close enough to intercept that nuclear strike. Should also be stated that NK has enough conventional firepower aimed at them to commit an astonishingly brutal genocide before the Bomb hits.  Maybe that's okay with you, but for the rest of the Allied nations, they are not okay with that.  Never smart to turn the world against you.

Then there's the fact that China considers North Korea a useful buffer between themselves and Western interests/influence.  China has a small stockpile of nuclear weapons but still more than enough to overwhelm current missile defenses, which is important to keep in mind considering China maintains that it will retaliate against any preemptive attack on North Korea.  So even if you don't consider North Korea to possess Nuclear Deterrence, China certainly does and Russia is becoming an emergent ally to China.  Since both are in range of radioactive fallout, an attack on NK is an attack on their own land.  Both their leaders have cultivated the expectation to respond to military threats.  Launching a nuclear weapon on North Korea could draw both those countries into a nuclear conflict and their combined arsenal/readiness is strong enough to easily reduce your continent to a radioactive wasteland.  Up to you if hitting a bomb site is worth the risk, but I leave you with a Klingon Proverb:  "Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory." 

Since NATO compels Europe to respond, in the event of an all-out nuclear exchange, the world's leading powers are more than capable of ensuring mutual annihilation.  It would be a catastrophic ecological, economic and humanitarian disaster on an unbelievable scale.  FEMA still has vacancies in its senior leadership so it's a bad time to give the Agency the ultimate stress test.  Provided that Carl Sagan's grim prediction of nuclear war is incorrect (The Cold and the Dark: the Aftermath of Global Nuclear War), South America and great swaths of Africa could wind up taking the mantle of civilization by sheer virtue of not availing themselves as nuclear targets (and if Carl Sagan is correct, humanity likely dies off in a generation or two at best).  

So I guess you've got the right idea if your endgame is trading bottle caps for dirty water in the United Confederacy of Venezuela. 

TL;DR: it provokes the genocide of your allies, cripples your negotiating power, threatens your economy, and thrusts you into existential peril.  Since you don't even know for certain where your intended target is, it's probably the dumbest of available options.  "We attack them with hummus."  Okay, one of the dumbest available options.



spurgeonryan said:
Think he is doing great and Will vote for him again.

You say he is doing a great job and I am wondering what has he done.

Lets break down a few things I have not see

Mexico is not paying for the wall

He stated he would fix Obamacare but did nothing, pushed it to Congress and neither did he help produce anything better but instead just messed up whats already there

Said he would fix the Trade deficit but the latest reports shows the absolute complete opposite.  It actually grown to record levels instead

Said we would be seeing Economic growth over 4% but here we are today, Nope

Said he would bring down the deficit, Nope record levels now.

Said NK would be denuclearized and actually made statements that they are but here we are today, Nope

Fix problems in the VA, Nope

Well, he still has 2 more years so may be he can make it happen but the way things are going and how incompetent his administration is, I highly doubt it.



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the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said:

1. Artificial price rises is because of the federal government

I'm talking about how insurance causes artifical price increases.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8

Snoopy said:

1.  If the federal government is willing to pay for everyone's medical problems, the hospital, insurance company, ect have no incentive to lower the price.

What happens in other countries is that the government negotiates for low prices, and the government is able to do that better than insurance companies for obvious reasons.  

Snoopy said:

2. But Democrats do discriminate all the time. Calling Trump supporters deplorables....

Many democrats do discriminate, not all.

And Hillary didn't say "All Trump supporters are deplorables.", they said "Some Trump supporters are deplorables."

Snoopy said:

3. It already has happened. The United States outsource work everywhere. China has been proven to be easily replaceable.

Hardly.  

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-04/evidence-grows-that-trump-s-trade-wars-are-hitting-u-s-economy

https://psmag.com/news/how-the-trade-war-has-affected-american-farmers

1. In the video you posted, they stated that if you don't have insurance you get charged fake prices because you can't choose who gets to perform certain tasks such as surgery. This is what happens when a corrupt federal government is in charge. Instead giving power to the state government and the states allow companies to bid who gets to surgeries, chemo, therapy, etc. 

 

 

2. Kind of like how Bernie Sander said White people don't know life in the ghetto. Hilliary said half of Trump supporters are deplorables. Those are horrible things to say.

 

3. The articles you posted are from known bias websites. You can look at pretty much any industry and see outsourcing besides China. We have to stop letting China cheat the system.



SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

They keep building up their nuclear arsenal and treating the US like a joke. It's a disgrace that they have been able to get away with this all this time. Also the whole Trump and Kim situation is a disaster thats why i brought this all in the Trump thread since they recently just had a meeting.

To get away with what?  What precisely have they actually done to us?  We've largely ignored them (until now) as a big dog would ignore a worm.  But now, we've given them a seat at the world table and the joke's on us.

See, there is being tough and then there is acting tough.  Being tough is being strong while recognizing true threats and then acting accordingly.  Acting tough is being weak but presenting yourself as strong and retaliating to anything and everything that insults you regardless of credibility of the threat.

Well, we just acted tough and legitimized NK as a world power. Two boned headed moves that have the world looking us like we've lost our frikkin minds.  Nevermind. I forgot that you don't care we are perceived by the rest of the world.  Regardless of the fact we are but 4% of the world's population.  Either way, we stopped being tough and started acting tough and now we have to deal with the crap acting tough created.

 

i also edited my previous post.  A few words got missed in the sentence.  It should read better now.

They are not just acting tough. If they said they would build more nukes and id not then that would be acting tough. Instead they have been building up their nuclear arsenal and have threatened us with it on multiple occasions.

Yeah Trump should have continued his "fire and fury" rhetoric and NK would not be a problem today. We need a President that willing to run the full mile not a pussy that becomes friends with a dictator.

SuaveSocialist said:
jason1637 said:
The whole NK situation is a disaster. Why cant we just nuke their bomb sites?

So many reasons.

For starters, no one knows for certain how many bomb sites there are or which are armed and ready to fire.  They have numerous well-hidden attack sites near the border and countless hiding places that cannot be confirmed.  It wouldn't be so much a tactical strike but a shot in the dark.  You'd basically have to glass the entire country just to be sure.  

But even if a tactical nuclear strike were possible, China, Russia, Japan and South Korea are all in range of radioactive fallout that could easily be carried away in the atmosphere or by sea.  That costs a megaton of bargaining power in all future diplomatic relations, especially if they mean to extract the cost of cleanup and medical care through trade deals.

South Koreans are in a particularly tough spot as 4 Million of them are in weapons range of any North Korean retaliation and if NK pushes the Big Red Button in its retaliation, no nation is close enough to intercept that nuclear strike. Should also be stated that NK has enough conventional firepower aimed at them to commit an astonishingly brutal genocide before the Bomb hits.  Maybe that's okay with you, but for the rest of the Allied nations, they are not okay with that.  Never smart to turn the world against you.

Then there's the fact that China considers North Korea a useful buffer between themselves and Western interests/influence.  China has a small stockpile of nuclear weapons but still more than enough to overwhelm current missile defenses, which is important to keep in mind considering China maintains that it will retaliate against any preemptive attack on North Korea.  So even if you don't consider North Korea to possess Nuclear Deterrence, China certainly does and Russia is becoming an emergent ally to China.  Since both are in range of radioactive fallout, an attack on NK is an attack on their own land.  Both their leaders have cultivated the expectation to respond to military threats.  Launching a nuclear weapon on North Korea could draw both those countries into a nuclear conflict and their combined arsenal/readiness is strong enough to easily reduce your continent to a radioactive wasteland.  Up to you if hitting a bomb site is worth the risk, but I leave you with a Klingon Proverb:  "Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory." 

Since NATO compels Europe to respond, in the event of an all-out nuclear exchange, the world's leading powers are more than capable of ensuring mutual annihilation.  It would be a catastrophic ecological, economic and humanitarian disaster on an unbelievable scale.  FEMA still has vacancies in its senior leadership so it's a bad time to give the Agency the ultimate stress test.  Provided that Carl Sagan's grim prediction of nuclear war is incorrect (The Cold and the Dark: the Aftermath of Global Nuclear War), South America and great swaths of Africa could wind up taking the mantle of civilization by sheer virtue of not availing themselves as nuclear targets (and if Carl Sagan is correct, humanity likely dies off in a generation or two at best).  

So I guess you've got the right idea if your endgame is trading bottle caps for dirty water in the United Confederacy of Venezuela. 

TL;DR: it provokes the genocide of your allies, cripples your negotiating power, threatens your economy, and thrusts you into existential peril.  Since you don't even know for certain where your intended target is, it's probably the dumbest of available options.  "We attack them with hummus."  Okay, one of the dumbest available options.

Wow. You literally went with the worst case, and the least likely scenario .

1. We have satellite informtion that tells us where their bomb sites are. If we bomb these sites and NK tries to retaliate then they will reveal the rest of their sites making it easy for us to bomb.

2. Ok, maybe not use nukes but other types of bombs that will be able to destroy their bomb sites and not cause damage to surrounding areas.

3. If we go in without letting SK know then NK might not go after them. Also im sure that their are procedures already set in place for a NK attack on SK.

4. China and Russia won't stick their heads out for NK because they would lose in a war with the US.

5. Other world leaders won't retaliate because they don't like NK and probably want Kim gone too.



Snoopy said:

1. In the video you posted, they stated that if you don't have insurance you get charged fake prices because you can't choose who gets to perform certain tasks such as surgery. This is what happens when a corrupt federal government is in charge. Instead giving power to the state government and the states allow companies to bid who gets to surgeries, chemo, therapy, etc. 

Actually, that gets avoided when the government is in charge, just look at any country in the world other than the US. Companies already bid who gets surgeries, therapies and so on by gouging the shit out of the people, in other words if you don't have money you're fucked.

The government doesn't discriminate here, and has a far bigger and better position to negotiate the prices for medicine than any company does. Not only represent they the entirety of the US citizens and not just parts of it, which allows for more severe negotiating tactics (like telling them to lower the prices or risking not allowing the medicine on the market, period), it doesn't disallow private insurance like it's so often stated. The federal government would set the baseline, and any private insurer would just have to improve upon them (like, offering private rooms instead of shared ones) to justify paying extra for them.

@bolded: Well, why voting a corrupt executive into President in the first place, then?



CommandoII said:
Immersiveunreality said:

I do not know what to think of that article,it tells us a tale of vague information about researchers and statistics and treats it as facts,and even then it tells us that these statistics show us that rape is not remembered well in some cases, like it is a rarity.

Like i said i can not give you full closure of what the truth is,my own experience with trauma is remembering each detail clearly even if i want to forget.

Her testimony was the complete opposite of how it works.  She would have remembered all the details she claimed to have forgot and for self-defense the hippocampus would have blurred the act.  That is how it has worked for me and everyone else I have talked to who have suffered this kind (non-specific) of trauma.  I can never remember "what happened" but I remember every detail of the conversation I had with the next person, or what the temperature was outside, or what song was on the radio.  That woman straight-up lied.

If I could chime in here... Considering that "trauma" is a daily occurrence in my fields... It all really depends on the individual.

For some, the shock can be an extreme case and the mind will reject it from memory almost instantly... And then it takes a catalyst to "kick start" that memory at a later date. I.E. Seeing the criminal again.

For others they can't forget and will often spend every waking moment reliving the incident and can pick out every single minutia.

And then you have the time-issue where the details of the incident start to skew the longer you leave it... Which is why after a traumatic event, emergency services usually have a de-brief so that everyone has the right details... That means the individual can be telling the truth, but the details just won't add up.

...Not saying whether this woman is being truthful or a liar, that's not my job to decide, but the legal system... It's just not always black and white.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

jason1637 said:

SuaveSocialist said:

So many reasons.

For starters, no one knows for certain how many bomb sites there are or which are armed and ready to fire.  They have numerous well-hidden attack sites near the border and countless hiding places that cannot be confirmed.  It wouldn't be so much a tactical strike but a shot in the dark.  You'd basically have to glass the entire country just to be sure.  

But even if a tactical nuclear strike were possible, China, Russia, Japan and South Korea are all in range of radioactive fallout that could easily be carried away in the atmosphere or by sea.  That costs a megaton of bargaining power in all future diplomatic relations, especially if they mean to extract the cost of cleanup and medical care through trade deals.

South Koreans are in a particularly tough spot as 4 Million of them are in weapons range of any North Korean retaliation and if NK pushes the Big Red Button in its retaliation, no nation is close enough to intercept that nuclear strike. Should also be stated that NK has enough conventional firepower aimed at them to commit an astonishingly brutal genocide before the Bomb hits.  Maybe that's okay with you, but for the rest of the Allied nations, they are not okay with that.  Never smart to turn the world against you.

Then there's the fact that China considers North Korea a useful buffer between themselves and Western interests/influence.  China has a small stockpile of nuclear weapons but still more than enough to overwhelm current missile defenses, which is important to keep in mind considering China maintains that it will retaliate against any preemptive attack on North Korea.  So even if you don't consider North Korea to possess Nuclear Deterrence, China certainly does and Russia is becoming an emergent ally to China.  Since both are in range of radioactive fallout, an attack on NK is an attack on their own land.  Both their leaders have cultivated the expectation to respond to military threats.  Launching a nuclear weapon on North Korea could draw both those countries into a nuclear conflict and their combined arsenal/readiness is strong enough to easily reduce your continent to a radioactive wasteland.  Up to you if hitting a bomb site is worth the risk, but I leave you with a Klingon Proverb:  "Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory." 

Since NATO compels Europe to respond, in the event of an all-out nuclear exchange, the world's leading powers are more than capable of ensuring mutual annihilation.  It would be a catastrophic ecological, economic and humanitarian disaster on an unbelievable scale.  FEMA still has vacancies in its senior leadership so it's a bad time to give the Agency the ultimate stress test.  Provided that Carl Sagan's grim prediction of nuclear war is incorrect (The Cold and the Dark: the Aftermath of Global Nuclear War), South America and great swaths of Africa could wind up taking the mantle of civilization by sheer virtue of not availing themselves as nuclear targets (and if Carl Sagan is correct, humanity likely dies off in a generation or two at best).  

So I guess you've got the right idea if your endgame is trading bottle caps for dirty water in the United Confederacy of Venezuela. 

TL;DR: it provokes the genocide of your allies, cripples your negotiating power, threatens your economy, and thrusts you into existential peril.  Since you don't even know for certain where your intended target is, it's probably the dumbest of available options.  "We attack them with hummus."  Okay, one of the dumbest available options.

Wow. You literally went with the worst case, and the least likely scenario .

2. Ok, maybe not use nukes

And despite thinking it so unlikely, you backed away from launching a nuclear strike on your second point.  Though using conventional weapons is an entirely different scenario, it looks like I answered your initial question to your satisfaction.