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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Game Awards 2017 - Votes Votes Votes

Chazore said:
Zekkyou said:

There are valid reasons for wanting PUBG to be excluded. There's a popular reddit post at the moment expressing that only full releases (i.e. finished games) should be included, and that doesn't seem like an unreasonable position. We don't review unreleased titles, so it makes sense that some would feel we shouldn't nominate them for GOTY too.

I'm personally apathetic, but there are logical arguments for both its inclusion and exclusion.

And what of busted port jobs, that still haven't been tended to, or is it okay when a PC port is busted and the console version up for nomination?.

I'd personally opt for inclusion if there exists a finished and nomination worthy version of a title (regardless to which platform holds that version), but i don't this the alternative position is unreasonable. Anger from the PC or console gamers with the alternative version would be understandable.



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mZuzek said:

Overwatch certainly had more going for it but I don't see much "art" in most multiplayer games, and certainly not PUBG. They're a different kind of experience, and one that was born long after single player games, so it only makes sense for the industry to focus its praise on the single player games that made it become as prominent as it is today.

Regardless, the merits of single player games and multiplayer games are very different. You can say Overwatch has plenty of good artistic material with its characters and stuff, but in the end the reason why the game was successful is because of how well it created a competitive environment through refining the core gameplay and through balancing and that sort of thing. Sure you can praise the level design or the core gameplay for it as much as you would for single player games, but the way in which the levels are designed and the way in which the core gameplay works is vastly different to that of the best single player games.

Maybe splitting everything is a bit too extreme, but I definitely feel the world would be more at peace if we had a "single player GotY" and a "competitive GotY" or something.

Edit: also another factor towards single player games is that they can have memorable moments and iconic set pieces. Multiplayer games are only memorable for specific experiences a specific player might have had, which makes that pretty much impossible to judge, let alone award, objectively. Of course a good multiplayer game is bound to have a higher likelihood of creating memorable moments, but it's not like a single player game where you can be sure everyone will be talking about that thing, or that people remember the game for that experience.

You talk of memorable experiences, but what of those many years of memories people have gathered from playing WoW, an MMO, known for being a multiplayer type game.

You can still tell a story via different methods of delivering it to the player, it doesn't have to entirely revolve around holding your hand and stating the obvious (which is what a lot of SP games tend to do, as well as forming giant set pieces).

That last part though, I've a different view with that, mainly because I'm able to remember my experiences with MP games, as well as friends being able to remember their times and their experiences. It is not just an SP thing. I find that people who greatly favour and love SP over MP, tend to overlook that viewpoint. I like both types of games, but I'm also able to remember memories from both experiences, and I do not hold one over the other.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Zekkyou said:

I'd personally opt for inclusion if there exists a finished and nomination worthy version of a title (regardless to which platform holds that version), but i don't this the alternative position is unreasonable. Anger from the PC or console gamers with the alternative version would be understandable.

So it becomes a choice of nominating the game anyway, even though the version on PC is still borked and hasn't received a single update?.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

mZuzek said:

Edit: also another factor towards single player games is that they can have memorable moments and iconic set pieces. Multiplayer games are only memorable for specific experiences a specific player might have had, which makes that pretty much impossible to judge, let alone award, objectively. Of course a good multiplayer game is bound to have a higher likelihood of creating memorable moments, but it's not like a single player game where you can be sure everyone will be talking about that thing, or that people remember the game for that experience.

I think I'm known for not trying to "objectively" receive a game. If it makes me the laughing stock of VGChartz than so be it, that's just how I feel. I just don't see a good argument for how something can be objectively received. I try not to waste my time with what I consider smoke and mirrors, so my favorite game is the one i'm most likely to think is the best game. That's not to say i'm incapable of  trying my hardest to be fair to games, but still I don't think of game reception like a literal fact vs fiction science. That being said, if you'd rather judge a game based on your idea of objectivity rather than your raw opinion on a game, that's your goal and that's fine. I just think if I was doing say, Splatoon 2 vs. Mario + Rabbids, I'd just say one is better than the other based on my perception and not some other standard.



A MP only game wins another GOTY I'm done.



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Chazore said:
Zekkyou said:

I'd personally opt for inclusion if there exists a finished and nomination worthy version of a title (regardless to which platform holds that version), but i don't this the alternative position is unreasonable. Anger from the PC or console gamers with the alternative version would be understandable.

So it becomes a choice of nominating the game anyway, even though the version on PC is still borked and hasn't received a single update?.

Doesn't my comment already act as a response to this? Again though, yes, if there is a finished and nomination worthy version then i'd personally still include it even if there's a poorer alternative (though i wouldn't object to it being a platform specific nomination). As i said though, i don't consider the alternative position unreasonable.



Zekkyou said:

Doesn't my comment already act as a response to this? Again though, yes, if there is a finished and nomination worthy version then i'd personally still include it even if there's a poorer alternative (though i wouldn't object to it being a platform specific nomination). As i said though, i don't consider the alternative position unreasonable.

The way you had previously said it didn't entirely make sense, but now you have fully clarified it for me.

I'd have to disagree with your previous point on withholding PuB from the wards then, if that is the case. If an early access title isn't allowed to be nominated, then a busted version of a game shouldn't either.

I find it rather unfair that people, who weren't invested in PuB, don't want it to win anything, yet a busted PC version of Nier is legit fine and okay. I find it rather warped to even remotely think that it's acceptable. It wasn't acceptable when Skyrim released a rather buggy PS3 version, we all know that story.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

mZuzek said:

Yes, but this is exactly my point. Both multiplayer and single player games can bring memorable moments, but they do so in largely different ways. Both kinds of games require good level design and a good set of mechanics to be any good, but the way in which those things must be designed is quite different, too.

I'd hardly say I greatly favor and love SP over MP. I'm a somewhat competitive Smash player and take the game considerably seriously (I've traveled to tournaments on at least 3 or 4 occasions), and I love it quite a lot, so clearly I do understand what makes multiplayer games awesome, which is why I feel confidence in stating that they're very different from single player. It isn't to say that time when me and 2 friends (because 1 disconnected) beat a full S+ rank japanese team with a crazy last second comeback in Splatoon wasn't memorable, but rather understanding that that was a moment created by the players who were playing the game, within the realms of what the game engine allows (including disconnecting players I guess) - unlike in a single player game where you'll have memorable moments that have been created by the developers for you to experience. And yes, of course I know single player games can also have memorable moments created by the player (in fact most great games do that), but that's still not really the same thing.

Yes, we gather that they are different, they were always different from the moment of their inceptions, but I honestly do not think we should split the GA into two different shows or anything, or limit MP games to a single category, while giving SP games a lot more.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Chazore said:
Zekkyou said:

Doesn't my comment already act as a response to this? Again though, yes, if there is a finished and nomination worthy version then i'd personally still include it even if there's a poorer alternative (though i wouldn't object to it being a platform specific nomination). As i said though, i don't consider the alternative position unreasonable.

The way you had previously said it didn't entirely make sense, but now you have fully clarified it for me.

I'd have to disagree with your previous point on withholding PuB from the wards then, if that is the case. If an early access title isn't allowed to be nominated, then a busted version of a game shouldn't either.

I find it rather unfair that people, who weren't invested in PuB, don't want it to win anything, yet a busted PC version of Nier is legit fine and okay. I find it rather warped to even remotely think that it's acceptable. It wasn't acceptable when Skyrim released a rather buggy PS3 version, we all know that story.

I didn't say PUBG should be excluded, just that there are valid reasons some might wish it were. I'm overall apathetic, so didn't express a preference. I did express one for titles like Nier because it has additional factors that i believe work in its favour, but not enough that i can't see the logic in the alternatives.



mZuzek said:

Personally I don't care too much that they're not split, because I'm fine with single player games dominating the nominations, but I think this is a much better scenario than one where we're mixing MP and SP titles in equal amounts of representation competing for only one GotY award, because that's pitting two very different beasts against one another, each with different kinds of fans and with very different merits to them.

But then it becomes a fair fight, when we see different games getting GOTY, rather than just Sp games.

Different games, genres and types all deserve to win here and there, not just one type.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"