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Forums - Politics Discussion - What is a political issue that you want to understand the opposite viewpoint more?

monocle_layton on 08 October 2017

I'd like to understand the people who cannot live their lives without ranting about specific groups of people, whether it'd be liberals, conservative, muslims, etc.

Also, how do people watch PJW, Mark Dice, Black Pidgeon speaks, and other shitshows? Literally 24/7 all I see from them are 'SJWs, Muslims, feminists, liberals, and blacks are responsible for everything!!!'. Are there any political youtubers who aren't obnoxious or idiots?



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AngryLittleAlchemist on 08 October 2017
Dulfite said:
The problem with even attempting to try to understand another person's point of view is that we think, in our heads, it just comes down to logic that we can all make sense of. Many, if not most humans, have some kind of guiding moral code or religious beliefs that they justify their political stances on. We all vary, and those guiding codes we follow dictate stances on political issues. But, let's be more specific since I know myself best and my own beliefs:

English Standard Version
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14

English Standard Version
"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

I don't expect a non believer to be able to "get" my thought process, that would be stupid of me to expect that. That can be, and has been, frustrating at times as I try to explain things out, but it just doesn't happen. And my belief system guides my political views:

I'm against abortion because I know we are created by God.
I believe homosexuality as a sin beacause God says so over and over again in the Bible.
 I believe the poor should be helped more than they are now (a view I didn't used to have).
I know God loves all people, not just certain races/genders.

One that I have become convicted by recently is this verse:
English Standard Version
Leviticus 19:34
"You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God."

It doesn't say "freak out because they might be terrorists" (which is what my brain tells me to do) or "refuse them entry into your country because they don't speak English" or even "Don't allow anyone who isn't a believer in." There aren't conditions to loving on people that come from a far away land, and I've been challanged as of late to love these people far, far more than I have been (love is a verb, not a state of emotions).

There are countless stances on political issues I have that are rooted in Christianity, so if someone doesn't have those same roots as I do, I can't really expect them to be able to understand my perspective. Likewise, I won't be able to understand the perspective of someone who isn't a believer, because I accepted Christ so very long ago I can't even remember what it is like to not have HIM as my savior and perfect model of how to live.

How does that affect your political views? Are you against gay marriage? If so, why should atheists be able to marry but not gay people?

Why should abortions not occur just because we are created by god?



VGPolyglot on 08 October 2017
Dulfite said:

I'm against abortion because I know we are created by God.
I believe homosexuality as a sin beacause God says so over and over again in the Bible.
 I believe the poor should be helped more than they are now (a view I didn't used to have).
I know God loves all people, not just certain races/genders.

God also told someone to kill their child as a test, so can't you come to the same possibility that he says homosexuals are bad as a test to see whether or not their unfairly discriminate against a group just because he says so?



TargaryenVers2 on 08 October 2017

People against lgbt equality for non-religious reasons



(Formerly RCTjunkie)

JWeinCom on 08 October 2017
Dulfite said:
The problem with even attempting to try to understand another person's point of view is that we think, in our heads, it just comes down to logic that we can all make sense of. Many, if not most humans, have some kind of guiding moral code or religious beliefs that they justify their political stances on. We all vary, and those guiding codes we follow dictate stances on political issues. But, let's be more specific since I know myself best and my own beliefs:

English Standard Version
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14

English Standard Version
"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

I don't expect a non believer to be able to "get" my thought process, that would be stupid of me to expect that. That can be, and has been, frustrating at times as I try to explain things out, but it just doesn't happen. And my belief system guides my political views:

I'm against abortion because I know we are created by God.
I believe homosexuality as a sin beacause God says so over and over again in the Bible.
I believe the poor should be helped more than they are now (a view I didn't used to have).
I know God loves all people, not just certain races/genders.

One that I have become convicted by recently is this verse:
English Standard Version
Leviticus 19:34
"You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God."

It doesn't say "freak out because they might be terrorists" (which is what my brain tells me to do) or "refuse them entry into your country because they don't speak English" or even "Don't allow anyone who isn't a believer in." There aren't conditions to loving on people that come from a far away land, and I've been challanged as of late to love these people far, far more than I have been (love is a verb, not a state of emotions).

There are countless stances on political issues I have that are rooted in Christianity, so if someone doesn't have those same roots as I do, I can't really expect them to be able to understand my perspective. Likewise, I won't be able to understand the perspective of someone who isn't a believer, because I accepted Christ so very long ago I can't even remember what it is like to not have HIM as my savior and perfect model of how to live.

Not to interrupt your sermon here, but it should be REALLY easy for you to imagine what it's like for non-Christians.

Just imagine that a Muslim is insisting that you need to live by the laws of the Quran because they know that Mohammed is the one true prophet of Allah.  

You know perfectly well what it's like to not believe in a religion.  Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine others feeling that way towards yours.



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fory77 on 08 October 2017
VGPolyglot said:

I'm not eloquent at all, but I guess I was wondering what people's thoughts were on ContraPoint's video on free speech, as generally I agree with her perspective (for those confused on the use of the pronoun, this video was made before she started transitioning)

I can agree with it.

One side: "You're offended? Deal with it!" Other side: "no u"

If you consistently deny someone/a viewpoint your ear based on a prejudice against it, while understandable, it is silly. 

 



Dulfite on 08 October 2017
Ka-pi96 said:
Dulfite said:
The problem with even attempting to try to understand another person's point of view is that we think, in our heads, it just comes down to logic that we can all make sense of. Many, if not most humans, have some kind of guiding moral code or religious beliefs that they justify their political stances on. We all vary, and those guiding codes we follow dictate stances on political issues. But, let's be more specific since I know myself best and my own beliefs:

English Standard Version
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14

English Standard Version
"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

I don't expect a non believer to be able to "get" my thought process, that would be stupid of me to expect that. That can be, and has been, frustrating at times as I try to explain things out, but it just doesn't happen. And my belief system guides my political views:

I'm against abortion because I know we are created by God.
I believe homosexuality as a sin beacause God says so over and over again in the Bible.
I believe the poor should be helped more than they are now (a view I didn't used to have).
I know God loves all people, not just certain races/genders.

One that I have become convicted by recently is this verse:
English Standard Version
Leviticus 19:34
"You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God."

It doesn't say "freak out because they might be terrorists" (which is what my brain tells me to do) or "refuse them entry into your country because they don't speak English" or even "Don't allow anyone who isn't a believer in." There aren't conditions to loving on people that come from a far away land, and I've been challanged as of late to love these people far, far more than I have been (love is a verb, not a state of emotions).

There are countless stances on political issues I have that are rooted in Christianity, so if someone doesn't have those same roots as I do, I can't really expect them to be able to understand my perspective. Likewise, I won't be able to understand the perspective of someone who isn't a believer, because I accepted Christ so very long ago I can't even remember what it is like to not have HIM as my savior and perfect model of how to live.

Should that really political issues for you though? If you use that as a reason to be against gay marriage etc how does that even work? For example you can hate the things gay people do (or even the people themselves) and use that as justification, that makes sense. But even if you do consider homosexuality to be a sin what is your basis for wanting legislation against it? Should they not have the freedom to sin if they so choose?

Now let's not jump to conclusions! I never said I was against gay marriage as a right. In fact, I don't think the government should have any say in marriage (it shouldn't be a government related thing at all). I used to be against gay marriage, but now I view marriage as something only God can do (people can call it marriage, but that doesn't make it marriage in my mind). I never said I wanted legislation.



Dulfite on 08 October 2017
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Dulfite said:
The problem with even attempting to try to understand another person's point of view is that we think, in our heads, it just comes down to logic that we can all make sense of. Many, if not most humans, have some kind of guiding moral code or religious beliefs that they justify their political stances on. We all vary, and those guiding codes we follow dictate stances on political issues. But, let's be more specific since I know myself best and my own beliefs:

English Standard Version
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14

English Standard Version
"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

I don't expect a non believer to be able to "get" my thought process, that would be stupid of me to expect that. That can be, and has been, frustrating at times as I try to explain things out, but it just doesn't happen. And my belief system guides my political views:

I'm against abortion because I know we are created by God.
I believe homosexuality as a sin beacause God says so over and over again in the Bible.
 I believe the poor should be helped more than they are now (a view I didn't used to have).
I know God loves all people, not just certain races/genders.

One that I have become convicted by recently is this verse:
English Standard Version
Leviticus 19:34
"You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God."

It doesn't say "freak out because they might be terrorists" (which is what my brain tells me to do) or "refuse them entry into your country because they don't speak English" or even "Don't allow anyone who isn't a believer in." There aren't conditions to loving on people that come from a far away land, and I've been challanged as of late to love these people far, far more than I have been (love is a verb, not a state of emotions).

There are countless stances on political issues I have that are rooted in Christianity, so if someone doesn't have those same roots as I do, I can't really expect them to be able to understand my perspective. Likewise, I won't be able to understand the perspective of someone who isn't a believer, because I accepted Christ so very long ago I can't even remember what it is like to not have HIM as my savior and perfect model of how to live.

How does that affect your political views? Are you against gay marriage? If so, why should atheists be able to marry but not gay people?

Why should abortions not occur just because we are created by god?

I guess I should have been more specific on this. I figured by not saying anything about marriage, people would understand that I don't want legislation on this. I think marriage should not be a government controlled thing period.

And as for abortions, I believe God creates human life to live and come to know HIM.



Dulfite on 08 October 2017
VGPolyglot said:
Dulfite said:

I'm against abortion because I know we are created by God.
I believe homosexuality as a sin beacause God says so over and over again in the Bible.
 I believe the poor should be helped more than they are now (a view I didn't used to have).
I know God loves all people, not just certain races/genders.

God also told someone to kill their child as a test, so can't you come to the same possibility that he says homosexuals are bad as a test to see whether or not their unfairly discriminate against a group just because he says so?

Ah Cherry picking without context. HE clearly stopped it from happening, was just testing his faith. As for your second statement, I really don't quite understand what you mean by it? Would you mind clarifying?



palou on 08 October 2017
Zkuq said:

palou said:

1. Also - why treat action and inaction differently? What, specifically, differentiates the two?

 

2. I feel that any choice we make should be measured by evaluated by simply looking at decisions as a set of probability fields, evaluating the ideal situation to your specific choices.

1. At first glance, they seem entirely different to me. What makes you think they're the same?

Think train dillemma. 

 

On a more political note: Suppose someone is dying of a fairly preventable disease somewhere near by, helping them would make you lose around 500$ (due to lost time), you decide that it's not worth it. That, to many, is not an action, and while assholish - in the right of the person. On the contrary, suppose you kill the for a prime of 500$. That, to many, is seen as an action, and should definitely send you to jail.

Looking at the 2 situations, there seems to be an equivalent choice, in terms of a decision tree based on outcome. They both chose a situation in which they came out with 500$ more, at the cost of a life.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.