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Forums - General Discussion - Are people inherently evil?

Aeolus451 said:
palou said:

These general rules are established by our emotions (which, in turn, serve to our collective survival). Just because we, as humans, feel that way, does not mean that it is an objective truth. 

 

If you want to name anything objectively evil, I require you to give a precise definition evil - we can, then, make a list of what applies, and what doesn't. 

No, they are not. They are established by reasoned thoughts and logic. Yes, they are usually common sense kind of things like don't steal or basically don't hurt others for unjust reasons. Emotions or emotional responses are for the most part are just a knee-jerk reaction to stimuli and a way for nature to ensure we form attachments to our young and to the people we care about. Emotions do give people an incentive or motivation of sorts but that's not how we created language or build society. Our emotions do not rule us, it's through reason that at least for most of us is how we decide to. 

I already gave my two cents on what I think evil and good really are in my post earlier in this thread. Your welcome to read it. I did create quasi list of things or type of people I think are evil. 

Ah yes, selfishness and selflessness are intersting principles, that I have considered myself. The problem I see with it is, however, that for all purposes everything we do ends up being inherintly, purely selfish in some way or form. We form bonds, which inspire desire to keep OUR people safe, because it makes us happier. 

 

Take the classic train dilemma, the train is heading towards someone you car, tied to the track, but you can choose to pull a lever to make it crush several other people instead

 

http://www.allthetests.com/quiz31/picture/pic_1416409939_5.jpg?1436189258

 

Many people would be tempted to do so - for reasons which can only be described as selfish. We hold desires benefitting others, following those desires doesn't make you selfless. No one is selfless, we just follow our desires, which have various residual impact upon others, to varying degrees of success.

 

I'll get back to you on all of this tommorow, it's a topic I've thought about quite a bit myself, but it's getting a bit late now...



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palou said:
Aeolus451 said:

No, they are not. They are established by reasoned thoughts and logic. Yes, they are usually common sense kind of things like don't steal or basically don't hurt others for unjust reasons. Emotions or emotional responses are for the most part are just a knee-jerk reaction to stimuli and a way for nature to ensure we form attachments to our young and to the people we care about. Emotions do give people an incentive or motivation of sorts but that's not how we created language or build society. Our emotions do not rule us, it's through reason that at least for most of us is how we decide to. 

I already gave my two cents on what I think evil and good really are in my post earlier in this thread. Your welcome to read it. I did create quasi list of things or type of people I think are evil. 

Ah yes, selfishness and selflessness are intersting principles, that I have considered myself. The problem I see with it is, however, that for all purposes everything we do ends up being inherintly, purely selfish in some way or form. We form bonds, which inspire desire to keep OUR people safe, because it makes us happier. 

 

Take the classic train dilemma, the train is heading towards someone you car, tied to the track, but you can choose to pull a lever to make it crush several other people instead

 

http://www.allthetests.com/quiz31/picture/pic_1416409939_5.jpg?1436189258

 

Many people would be tempted to do so - for reasons which can only be described as selfish. We hold desires benefitting others, following those desires doesn't make you selfless. No one is selfless, we just follow our desires, which have various residual impact upon others, to varying degrees of success.

 

I'll get back to you on all of this tommorow, it's a topic I've thought about quite a bit myself, but it's getting a bit late now...

I think moderate levels of selfishness is normal or rather it's okay but extreme levels of it, one could say easily that it's evil. I agree that every is selfish to some degree. On selflessness, I agree that no one is selfless or is able to maintain that state of mind but I think people can have moments of selflessness or commit acts of it such as saving a child from a speeding car and getting hurt from it or dying. 

The most interesting part of this is related to that train example but in a different context. For example, having to choose between saving one Albert Einstein (or someone of equal accomplishments) or 10,000 regular blue collar people from death? The gray area. Objectively, doing something really bad for good reasons or having to choose between bad choices. 



Selfish people are usually worthless pieces of garbage.
I have worked hard, achieved success and I have given lots to charity and I can sleep well at night.



Evil is a moral concept. People aren't born with morals, it's a human invention. So no.

However most of human's base instinct can be considered evil in a society with high morals.



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vivster said:
Evil is a moral concept. People aren't born with morals, it's a human invention. So no.

However most of human's base instinct can be considered evil in a society with high morals.









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No low age kid alway kindly, and alway try help other even if not reward at end, many study about this..... its society who make people evil, because modern society is all about money, and this corrupt most people.



by a certain age most people understand the concept of empathy, a very small percentage of people are born with mental illnesses that deprive them of emotions and some people prioritize their needs over others, which in both cases can lead to "evil" behavior. Would have liked to have seen a poll for yes or no on this topic.



I have never believed that babies/children are "inherently evil", and I think it's morally wrong of certain religions to teach that. I think that we're all born with natural survival instincts, sure. But humans are also naturally a pack/community creature, it is ingrained in our fabric to socialize and work together for mutual survival. Any kid can be bratty and selfish at times, yes. But I've also seen enough of children to know that generally speaking, unless they have a bad home life or explicitly bad (abusive, absentee or overly spoiled) parenting, left to their own devices I think kids tend to be nicer to each other, and share, have empathy, etc. I think that NOT having empathy, having selfish tendencies, bullying/mean-spirtedness, prejudice/bigotry, etc., those are learned traits. Most especially inside the home, from their parents and families, but also from other kids, television, and society in general.

I think most "evil" or selfish, bad behaviors are learned. Not 100%, but most.



Well if you watch the history chanal I guess we are. But there is progress these days. Today most humans and me included btw are inherently selfish, but most of the time that doesn't lead towards evil. It just makes people less social and there is no law preventing you from being selfish. Also not committing crimes doesn't make you a good person just a mediocre one on the moral ladder.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

DevilRising said:
I have never believed that babies/children are "inherently evil", and I think it's morally wrong of certain religions to teach that. I think that we're all born with natural survival instincts, sure. But humans are also naturally a pack/community creature, it is ingrained in our fabric to socialize and work together for mutual survival. Any kid can be bratty and selfish at times, yes. But I've also seen enough of children to know that generally speaking, unless they have a bad home life or explicitly bad (abusive, absentee or overly spoiled) parenting, left to their own devices I think kids tend to be nicer to each other, and share, have empathy, etc. I think that NOT having empathy, having selfish tendencies, bullying/mean-spirtedness, prejudice/bigotry, etc., those are learned traits. Most especially inside the home, from their parents and families, but also from other kids, television, and society in general.

I think most "evil" or selfish, bad behaviors are learned. Not 100%, but most.

You can be born as a psychopath and litteraly don't comprehend compassion. Besides most sociopaths need to be triggered to really become a sociopath and that's induced by a social trauma caused by bullying/abuse etc. A sociopath is indeed made not born and there brains simply don't or bately react towards situations that requires empathy. Nearly 4% of the world has an antisocial personality disorder, but that's still no reason to act like an ass though. It just explains why some people lack empathy and in general just don't care about another.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar