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Forums - Politics Discussion - Climatologists deny existence Donald Trump

Goodnightmoon said:
"Global warming isn't real" is the new "the Earth is flat"

The discussion already started ever since Al Gore's inconvenient truth. But the discussion does start to polarise more these days outside of the academic world at leadt which is pretty straightforward. Politicians and regular people on the other hand just want to believerify climate change isn't real because it's a more pleasing scenario which doesn't affect them at all.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Illusion said:
Flilix said:

So anyone who doesn't want to see our world destroyed is considered to be on the left now?

No, but those who want to get rid of an open and free society are.  If you are so sure that your science is right then you should be able to use the force of truth to win your debates rather then the force of law.  If climate change skeptics are posing such a big obstacle to your plans to save the world, how can you be sure that there is absolutely no validity to their arguments?  That said, I guess that it's easier to just steamroll them anyways and just pretend that they are all nuts.  I mean, it's not like CNN or the rest of the mainstream media who have been telling us that there is consensus on the climate change debate for the last 15 years ever lies or distorts the truth, right?

The vast majority of the scientists who researched climate change says that we're causing a global warming and that it will be a big problem in the future (it already is, actually). That doesn't mean we can be 100% certain about it, but we have absolutely no reason to doubt them since they know a lot more about the topic than we do. Also, if we do something about climate change we just lose a bit of money, but if we don't do anything it could result in billions of deaths.

If (influential) people doubt climate change, then there will be a certain amount of people who believe them, which could result in numerous deaths.



Illusion said:
Flilix said:

So anyone who doesn't want to see our world destroyed is considered to be on the left now?

No, but those who want to get rid of an open and free society are.  If you are so sure that your science is right then you should be able to use the force of truth to win your debates rather then the force of law.  If climate change skeptics are posing such a big obstacle to your plans to save the world, how can you be sure that there is absolutely no validity to their arguments?  That said, I guess that it's easier to just steamroll them anyways and just pretend that they are all nuts.  I mean, it's not like CNN or the rest of the mainstream media who have been telling us that there is consensus on the climate change debate for the last 15 years ever lies or distorts the truth, right?

The president you support isn't just actively taking steps against protecting the climate (even tough that was his most publicized step with regards to environmentalism and is also spoofed in the article in OP), he has lifted protections for national parks and protected areas and has lifted the clean water act.

We KNOW pollution and chemical waste in freshwater with access to the sea is desastrous to entire eco systems. Same with hot water from coolingsystems, say for a coal-fired power plant, that gets routed back into rivers unfiltered and uncooled. That isn't up for debate. But if whoever is in power isn't listening to 'the power of truth' because they follow their own selfish and shortsighted goals that come from a place of extreme privilige, then there isn't much you can do, hard evidence or not.

Whoever is in power has to WILLING to listen or they have to be MADE to listen by public pressure. You're not freeing a society by willfully destroying their potential future and allowing companies to do whatever they want no matter how harmful. It only produces more cost, more problems and more misery in the long run.

Also official statements given by scientific assiciations do not equal CNN. It's not the media telling you it's real. They are just broadcasting the message. And the more research gets done the clearer that meassage gets. But feel free, it you don't trust CNN, or even the official statements of scientific associations, read the studies yourself.



This is genius...lovely satire!



Illusion said:

And as a Trump supporter I disagree with these scientists but I completely respect their rights to freedom of speech and to express their views openly. I may not agree with them, I may argue against them, and I may even think that they are enemies of the truth but at the end of the day I realize that in order to have a free society, even the most unsavory views need to be allowed to exist as long as they aren't calling for violence against a person or group of people. If I were to use the force of law to coerce these scientists and change their views to acknowledge Trump's existence I would eventually become the very evil that I was trying to eliminate.

Now, let's see if climate change skeptics are treated with the same respect by the left:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/2/calif-bill-prosecutes-climate-change-skeptics/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/14/bill-nye-open-criminal-charges-jail-time-climate-c/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/02/french-weatherman-fired-for-promoting-book-sceptical-of-climate-change

Nevermind.

I didn't click but.....don't forget there is a vocal minority who did not just elect this baffoon but also believe he exists!



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Illusion said:
Flilix said:

So anyone who doesn't want to see our world destroyed is considered to be on the left now?

No, but those who want to get rid of an open and free society are.  If you are so sure that your science is right then you should be able to use the force of truth to win your debates rather then the force of law.  If climate change skeptics are posing such a big obstacle to your plans to save the world, how can you be sure that there is absolutely no validity to their arguments?  That said, I guess that it's easier to just steamroll them anyways and just pretend that they are all nuts.  I mean, it's not like CNN or the rest of the mainstream media who have been telling us that there is consensus on the climate change debate for the last 15 years ever lies or distorts the truth, right?

I don't know what is more funny, you calling yourself Illusion or that you believe that the USA are a open and free society...



So, basically like Big Brother?



Since we're on this topic, recently found this funny image:



Flilix said:

The vast majority of the scientists who researched climate change says that we're causing a global warming and that it will be a big problem in the future (it already is, actually). That doesn't mean we can be 100% certain about it, but we have absolutely no reason to doubt them since they know a lot more about the topic than we do. Also, if we do something about climate change we just lose a bit of money, but if we don't do anything it could result in billions of deaths.

If (influential) people doubt climate change, then there will be a certain amount of people who believe them, which could result in numerous deaths.

The very people who you are trusting on the topic of climate change are telling you that it is already impossible to stop climate change and that we are headed for a global catastrophe.  In fact, just to have a chance at avoiding a catastrophe, they are saying that the world needs to increase its spending by 20 times over current levels between now and 2050:

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/12/cost-to-save-the-world-cop21/

The cost of "fighting climate change" is far greater than losing a bit of money.  This level of expenditure is simply impossible for most western countries that are already racking up massive defecits with aging populations that are getting older by the year.  In practice, fighting climate change means that you will not be able to afford a car, you will not be flying, and your kids probably will never have jobs.  So given that the cost is insurmountable, why don't we actually ask some serious questions about the science before we start handing over billions of dollars in tax money to people who could very easily be using the science as a fake religion to get rich off of people.  Why are some of the most crooked corporations out there like Goldman Sachs such big supporters of climate change?

Furthermore, do not trust everything you hear, especially when the source needs to keep insisting that it is the only truthful viewpoint on the subject.  One of the things I have discovered in life is that the truth doesn't need to boast about itself, it actually welcomes dissent because argument only makes it stronger.  The climate change group, however, wants to jail all "deniers."  How can you look at that kind of argument and not think about the inquisition?

Case in point, remember how every economist out there was telling us that Brexit or Trump would mean the end of the economy and a massive stock market crash?  At the time the MSM was insisting that there was scientific consensus on these topics but obviously they were dead wrong on both accounts.  Twisting science for a political agenda is actually a very effective tool to shut down dissent.  Most scientists will never speak out against a political agenda because they can lose their careers for being politically incorrect and those who do speak out get made an example of (like that poor French weather reporter).



Illusion said:
Flilix said:

The vast majority of the scientists who researched climate change says that we're causing a global warming and that it will be a big problem in the future (it already is, actually). That doesn't mean we can be 100% certain about it, but we have absolutely no reason to doubt them since they know a lot more about the topic than we do. Also, if we do something about climate change we just lose a bit of money, but if we don't do anything it could result in billions of deaths.

If (influential) people doubt climate change, then there will be a certain amount of people who believe them, which could result in numerous deaths.

The very people who you are trusting on the topic of climate change are telling you that it is already impossible to stop climate change and that we are headed for a global catastrophe.  In fact, just to have a chance at avoiding a catastrophe, they are saying that the world needs to increase its spending by 20 times over current levels between now and 2050:

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/12/cost-to-save-the-world-cop21/

The cost of "fighting climate change" is far greater than losing a bit of money.  This level of expenditure is simply impossible for most western countries that are already racking up massive defecits with aging populations that are getting older by the year.  In practice, fighting climate change means that you will not be able to afford a car, you will not be flying, and your kids probably will never have jobs.  So given that the cost is insurmountable, why don't we actually ask some serious questions about the science before we start handing over billions of dollars in tax money to people who could very easily be using the science as a fake religion to get rich off of people.  Why are some of the most crooked corporations out there like Goldman Sachs such big supporters of climate change?

Furthermore, do not trust everything you hear, especially when the source needs to keep insisting that it is the only truthful viewpoint on the subject.  One of the things I have discovered in life is that the truth doesn't need to boast about itself, it actually welcomes dissent because argument only makes it stronger.  The climate change group, however, wants to jail all "deniers."  How can you look at that kind of argument and not think about the inquisition?

Case in point, remember how every economist out there was telling us that Brexit or Trump would mean the end of the economy and a massive stock market crash?  At the time the MSM was insisting that there was scientific consensus on these topics but obviously they were dead wrong on both accounts.  Twisting science for a political agenda is actually a very effective tool to shut down dissent.  Most scientists will never speak out against a political agenda because they can lose their careers for being politically incorrect and those who do speak out get made an example of (like that poor French weather reporter).

We won't be able to totally solve the problem, but we could at least try to reduce it. We can do a lot of things, without puting ourselves in big trouble right now. For example, if we would just stop eating meat, we already save millions of lives (and we would also save a lot of money).

You're saying that we don't have to trust everything we hear. So we shouldn't blindly trust either side of the climate debate. But assuming that we don't know anything about it ourselves, it makes a lot more sense for us to believe in climate change:
1. Almost all people who have researched the topic say that climate change is real.
2. The consequences of not believing in climate change are a lot worse than the consequences of believing in climate change. (No matter how much we have to pay, millions of people dying is still worse.)
3. People who deny climate change, have a lot more reasons to do that out of their own interest.

No, I don't remember anyone saying that the Brexit or Trump would mean a massive stock crash, but I do remember that some people said they could be bad for the economy. And indeed, yesterday I read in the newspaper that the British economy is growing slower than any other economy in the world.