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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - If XBX fails, what next?

Mr Puggsly on 22 July 2017
Shiken said:
sethnintendo said:

So Games for Windows Live 2.0. 

The X1 is just kind of there, not really excelling at anything.  They don't know what they want to be anymore, and that is half their problem.  To me, the X1X just seems like a glorified steambox.  If I want that, I will just build a real gaming rig.  Without much to offer in terms of exclusive incentive, I feel like XBox consoles are on their last leg.

I've played notable games on X1 (exclusvie and console exclusive) but according to people like you those expereinces didn't happen. From a gameplay perspective, I still lean MS over Sony. As Sony is leaning heavy into narative in their games.

People show they're out of touch with the average consumer when they say, "I will build my own gaming PC." There is market for that, but most people just want to buy something pre built, reasonably priced, and easy to use. This is what PC lacks compared to consoles.

I agree MS should do more in the exclsuive department, but they already have notable content. Eitherway, its primarily 3rd party content that moves these consoles.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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Mr Puggsly on 22 July 2017
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Its not going to fail, but its not going to sell as much as the PS4 Pro. If it fails mid gen refreshes might work in two ways:

1) They wont make the console as powerful just to compete with what they expect the competition to use.
2) They will follow Sonys model to stay competitive.
3) They wont make one at anymore.

It all depends on how far they lean into incremental upgrades.

If Sony beleives in gens as they imply, then the PS5 is essentially going to kill PS4/PS4 Pro. If the PS5 is going to be a singificant specs upgrade, I'm not sure if that can happen at $399. The PS4 Pro has underwhelmed even though its considerably more powerful.

If MS really wants to make their focus incremental upgrades, then X1X will continued to be supported along with a new Xbox One around 2021. Hence, $249/299 X1X and $499 X1X-2. While the OG X1 will likely be phased out unless developed choose to support it.

I think that's a good route for MS because it avoids splitting the audience even if forcing developers to support X1X MIGHT be a nuisance for some.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Pemalite on 23 July 2017
Mr Puggsly said:
Shiken said:

The X1 is just kind of there, not really excelling at anything.  They don't know what they want to be anymore, and that is half their problem.  To me, the X1X just seems like a glorified steambox.  If I want that, I will just build a real gaming rig.  Without much to offer in terms of exclusive incentive, I feel like XBox consoles are on their last leg.

I've played notable games on X1 (exclusvie and console exclusive) but according to people like you those expereinces didn't happen. From a gameplay perspective, I still lean MS over Sony. As Sony is leaning heavy into narative in their games.

People show they're out of touch with the average consumer when they say, "I will build my own gaming PC." There is market for that, but most people just want to buy something pre built, reasonably priced, and easy to use. This is what PC lacks compared to consoles.

I agree MS should do more in the exclsuive department, but they already have notable content. Eitherway, its primarily 3rd party content that moves these consoles.

I wouldn't be quick to jump the gun and say that self-building PC users are an inconsequential demographic.

Companies like Razer, Corsair, Thermaltake, XFX, Coolermaster, Silverstone, Gigabyte, MSI, Asus, Acer and many many more have made a crap ton of cash from self building PC gamers.
AMD, nVidia and Intel recognize and take advantage of the sizable chunk of self-building PC gamers as well to help spurr upgrade cycles. Whilst the entire PC industry was in decline, self-building PC gamers were growing.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

darkenergy on 23 July 2017
Shadow1980 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
If X1/X1X can maintain 7-8 million units a year, then they should just stay the course.

At some that could achieve the 360 userbase.

Here's how the XBO has been tracking against the 360 in the U.S., and what it's facing in the coming years:


At this point in its life, the 360 S wouldn't even be released yet for another year, and that was when the 360 really hit its stride. The XBO is still ahead of the 360 in aligned LTD sales, but let's look at where it's taken the lead:

All of its lead has come from its launch and the holidays. It was bleeding its surplus through the April-Oct. period of 2014, nearly all of the non-holiday period of 2016, and all of 2017 so far. It did trend slightly better than the 360 in the Jan.-Aug. period of 2015, but those gains got completely wiped out and then some in September.

The XBO S has failed to produce the same effects the 360 S did. The 360 S cause a huge surge in sales that persisted from its June 2010 launch on through to Q1 of 2012. Meanwhile, the XBO S produced an increase in sales that lasted until this January (sans November, which was a rough month compared the previous few Novembers for the console market in general), but its effects have already petered out. The X1X may provide a modest boost to sales, but we shouldn't expect a lot more than what we saw with the PS4 Pro. And continuing to drop the price won't help. Eventually, sales reach a point to where even deep price cuts won't reverse the decline in sales for any more than a month or two.

We also have to take into account market share. The 360 utterly dominated the PS3 in the U.S., while the PS4 has been the overall market leader this generation, having sold nearly 15% more units than the XBO. The 360 went on to eventually pull ahead of the Wii and become the second best-selling console ever the U.S., behind only the PS2. We shouldn't expect the XBO to replicate that.

Given all these facts, we can conclude with an extreme degree of confidence that the XBO will not attain the sales the 360 did, and that it's highly probably that it will fall at least several million short of the 360 in the U.S. If we expand to global sales, well, the XBO is barely a blip in Japan, and is selling so poorly that it makes the 360's sales there look good in comparison. And Europe isn't going to help things, either. If VGC's numbers are any indication, the XBO has already fallen behind the 360, and it's going to keep getting worse. A lot worse. While the XBO has been doing well in the UK, it's still a U.S.-like situation with the PS4 in the lead instead of Xbox dominating like it did last gen. On the continent, it's been a disaster. The XBO is almost certainly going to end falling 15-20 million short of the 360 globally.

How can you consider it a disaster when you stated at the end of your post that the X1 will fall 15-20 million of the 360 globally? That would make lifetime sales of the X1 between 63-68 million and that would make the X1 way more sucessful than the 50 million units sold some were saying won't happen in the other thread.

LudicrousSpeed said:
If it "fails" them I'm sure they'll focus on the next Xbox :)

They just posted a 9+ billion gaming revenue for the year, lol @ the idea that they are leaving.

Not to mention the rumor of MS are already designing the next Xbox according to a tweet that was posted some time ago.



Proud to be a Californian.

darkenergy on 23 July 2017

Xbox One X will do fine, the S console will still be the one that leads X1 hardware.



Proud to be a Californian.

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Mr Puggsly on 23 July 2017
Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I've played notable games on X1 (exclusvie and console exclusive) but according to people like you those expereinces didn't happen. From a gameplay perspective, I still lean MS over Sony. As Sony is leaning heavy into narative in their games.

People show they're out of touch with the average consumer when they say, "I will build my own gaming PC." There is market for that, but most people just want to buy something pre built, reasonably priced, and easy to use. This is what PC lacks compared to consoles.

I agree MS should do more in the exclsuive department, but they already have notable content. Eitherway, its primarily 3rd party content that moves these consoles.

I wouldn't be quick to jump the gun and say that self-building PC users are an inconsequential demographic.

Companies like Razer, Corsair, Thermaltake, XFX, Coolermaster, Silverstone, Gigabyte, MSI, Asus, Acer and many many more have made a crap ton of cash from self building PC gamers.
AMD, nVidia and Intel recognize and take advantage of the sizable chunk of self-building PC gamers as well to help spurr upgrade cycles. Whilst the entire PC industry was in decline, self-building PC gamers were growing.

You're exagerating what I said to make an argument.

My statment stands, the average gamer is using pre built hardware whether it be a home console or portable device.

The building a PC market is niche in comparison while viable. Also depends on the country.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

KBG29 on 23 July 2017

Whether XOX succeeds or fails I fully expect the next gen Xbox to be a full Windows device, locked in the Windows ecosystem.

Microsoft is not going to give up their connection to the TV. It may not be market leading, but it is still a gateway to their ecosystem, and brings revenue and profits through the digital store front. I know plenty of Apple fans that the Xbox is their only connection to Microsoft. Their yearly Gold membership + Digital purchases of a handful of sports titles, FPSs, and exclusives brings nothing but profit for MS.

I think by putting full fledged Windows on Xbox, they can grow the Windows Store/Universal Windows Apps, and potentially bring more "Average Joe" Tower PC users over to the platform.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

exclusive_console on 23 July 2017
Mr Puggsly said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Its not going to fail, but its not going to sell as much as the PS4 Pro. If it fails mid gen refreshes might work in two ways:

1) They wont make the console as powerful just to compete with what they expect the competition to use.
2) They will follow Sonys model to stay competitive.
3) They wont make one at anymore.

It all depends on how far they lean into incremental upgrades.

If Sony beleives in gens as they imply, then the PS5 is essentially going to kill PS4/PS4 Pro. If the PS5 is going to be a singificant specs upgrade, I'm not sure if that can happen at $399. The PS4 Pro has underwhelmed even though its considerably more powerful.

If MS really wants to make their focus incremental upgrades, then X1X will continued to be supported along with a new Xbox One around 2021. Hence, $249/299 X1X and $499 X1X-2. While the OG X1 will likely be phased out unless developed choose to support it.

I think that's a good route for MS because it avoids splitting the audience even if forcing developers to support X1X MIGHT be a nuisance for some.

I doubt even PS4P slim will come down to 300$ next year TBH. I cannot see these mid gen console lasting much. Max another 4yrs.I doubt PS4P or X!X will be 900P 1080Pconsole once PS5 launches. Obviously the new console will be backward compatible. So the current gen will be obselete with no future. New console will play old games at higher resolution as well  as new games which utilizes its power unlike PS4P and XBIX which are barely used.



 

Mr Puggsly on 23 July 2017
Shadow1980 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm not interested in reading all that but I'm suggesting a scenario where Xbox One is relelvant longer via incremental upgrades.

Hence, a new Xbox One in 2021 while the X1X becomes the budget option.

You're assuming iterative "generation-less" hardware a la the "iDevices" model will be MS's strategy and that it will be a viable strategy. I doubt both things. It's an untested idea that runs contrary to everything we know about how and why consoles sell the way they do. A proper next-gen Xbox released around the same time as the PS5 will provide a blank slate for MS to start over from, and assuming they have learned from their mistakes an "Xbox 4" could do a good bit better than the XBO did.

Well Phil has more than implied that's the direction they're considering. Why wouldn't incremental upgrades be viable? As long as consumers can play the latest games on a reasonably priced machine then they will be happy.

Again, X1X is a powerful and expensive device at launch. But it could be the cheap option to play 9th gen games in 2021.

If MS just goes head on with Sony again with no price edge, that may not end well for MS.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Oneeee-Chan!!! on 23 July 2017
Mr Puggsly said:
Shadow1980 said:

You're assuming iterative "generation-less" hardware a la the "iDevices" model will be MS's strategy and that it will be a viable strategy. I doubt both things. It's an untested idea that runs contrary to everything we know about how and why consoles sell the way they do. A proper next-gen Xbox released around the same time as the PS5 will provide a blank slate for MS to start over from, and assuming they have learned from their mistakes an "Xbox 4" could do a good bit better than the XBO did.

Well Phil has more than implied that's the direction they're considering. Why wouldn't incremental upgrades be viable? As long as consumers can play the latest games on a reasonably priced machine then they will be happy.

Again, X1X is a powerful and expensive device at launch. But it could be the cheap option to play 9th gen games in 2021.

If MS just goes head on with Sony again with no price edge, that may not end well for MS.

Question.

You say XB1X can run next gen games right ?

If so, How about PS4 pro ?