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Forums - Politics Discussion - Turkey to teach children true meaning of 'jihad' in schools

Fei-Hung said:
Flilix said:
When I read the title, I thought it was ging to be about that 'jihad is about peace' bullshit, but it's even worse.

The definition of jihad is the internal and external struggle to morally and ethically to do the right thing for the betterment of mankind and yourself. The only people who disagree are terrorists since they use it to justify violence and bigots who indirectly give credibility to the terrorist. 

Like every word, it has multiple meanings. That's not the common definition of it nor is that the first thing you think of when you see or hear the word "jihad".



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Lafiel said:
Aeolus451 said:

 He wants to take a common sense cautionary step (vetting) when a sizable portion of muslims are radical or terrorists. 

the US has been hardcore vetting ME travelers/migrants at least since 2001, there is little more that can be done on that front

I doubt that. 



Flilix said:
Fei-Hung said:

The definition of jihad is the internal and external struggle to morally and ethically to do the right thing for the betterment of mankind and yourself. The only people who disagree are terrorists since they use it to justify violence and bigots who indirectly give credibility to the terrorist. 

'The betterment of mankind and yourself'. This also includes violent oppression of anything that isn't Muslim. Muhammad himself fought bloody wars with his army and forced defeated enemies to convert to Islam.

As above. You're not a scholar of the faith nor are you any authority on it. Stop miseducating yourself and others. If you carry on spreading false information I'll have to report you for trolling and spreading uneducated false information that leads to hate fire no good reason. 

 

In case you are wondering how I know, I work work with scholars and have worked on several government programs as well as world faith leaders. People who have actually  studied my just Googled and taken their answers from out of context terrorist / left wing websites. 



Aeolus451 said:
Pemalite said:

There are terrorists in every faith. You can even have non-religious extremists.

You do not just vet for Muslims and only for select countries. You vet everyone. Otherwise your efforts are completely and utterly pointless.

Of course, there's bad apples within every faith and that there's non-religious extremists, too but the vast majority of terrorists in modern times come from the muslim faith. Everyone is already being screened or vetted to some degree but I agree that it should be strengthened across the board but muslims should be vetted more if they come from certain countries. 

Doesn't matter where the majority are. You do not do a half-assed job, vet everyone, stop discriminating, do something once, do it right or do not do it at all.

There are active buddhist terrorists in Asia. You have Christian terrorists in Africa, you are essentially leaving the door open for them, that is not okay.



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Fei-Hung said:
Flilix said:

'The betterment of mankind and yourself'. This also includes violent oppression of anything that isn't Muslim. Muhammad himself fought bloody wars with his army and forced defeated enemies to convert to Islam.

As above. You're not a scholar of the faith nor are you any authority on it. Stop miseducating yourself and others. If you carry on spreading false information I'll have to report you for trolling and spreading uneducated false information that leads to hate fire no good reason. 

 

In case you are wondering how I know, I work work with scholars and have worked on several government programs as well as world faith leaders. People who have actually  studied my just Googled and taken their answers from out of context terrorist / left wing websites. 

You're the one spreading misinformation by trying to bully others into believing your word on it. I rather see the whole picture of something rather than one side of it being hidden because it doesn't fit the narrative. 



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Fei-Hung said:
Flilix said:

'The betterment of mankind and yourself'. This also includes violent oppression of anything that isn't Muslim. Muhammad himself fought bloody wars with his army and forced defeated enemies to convert to Islam.

As above. You're not a scholar of the faith nor are you any authority on it. Stop miseducating yourself and others. If you carry on spreading false information I'll have to report you for trolling and spreading uneducated false information that leads to hate fire no good reason. 

 

In case you are wondering how I know, I work work with scholars and have worked on several government programs as well as world faith leaders. People who have actually  studied my just Googled and taken their answers from out of context terrorist / left wing websites. 

This doesn't have anything to do with faith anymore. It's pure factual history. Whether someone is an Islam expert or someone doesn't know anything about the Islam, that doesn't change the historical truth. The conquering of Arabia by Muhammad and his successors is well documented and it was the origin of the Arabian Empire.



Pemalite said:
Aeolus451 said:

Of course, there's bad apples within every faith and that there's non-religious extremists, too but the vast majority of terrorists in modern times come from the muslim faith. Everyone is already being screened or vetted to some degree but I agree that it should be strengthened across the board but muslims should be vetted more if they come from certain countries. 

Doesn't matter where the majority are. You do not do a half-assed job, vet everyone, stop discriminating, do something once, do it right or do not do it at all.

There are active buddhist terrorists in Asia. You have Christian terrorists in Africa, you are essentially leaving the door open for them, that is not okay.

My point still stands. Of course, you vet everyone but you focus that attention on certain groups because that is where the wheel is squeaky. Discrimination? How about common sense profiling. People lost all sense when they started to see any discrimination as a bad thing. How do you expect to find a criminal if you're afraid to use any of their individual traits to track them? If you're looking for illegal immigrants, do you pull over blacks to make the hispanics feel like you're not discriminating against them? What stupidity and a waste of resources. Progressives always turn a good idea into something that's ass backwards that everyone else has to fix or work around by coming up with pragmatic solutions. 



Aeolus451 said:

My point still stands. Of course, you vet everyone but you focus that attention on certain groups because that is where the wheel is squeaky. Discrimination?

If you are vetting everyone. A criminal cannot get through ANY avenue. That is the ENTIRE point.
Your way leaves a back door open as you are only picking and choosing who to vet, seems to be a simple concept that leaves conservatives baffled.

The majority of Muslims do not even live in the Middle East. - Where are Trumps proposed immigration restrictions? Most are in the Middle East region.
If you truly wished to put a stop to islamic extremism finding it's way to your country, then you need to be a little more proactive instead of picking and choosing who to discriminate against because of some wierd political agenda.


Aeolus451 said:

How do you expect to find a criminal if you're afraid to use any of their individual traits to track them?

I am not saying to be afraid of using individual defining traits. I am saying to vet everyone.

Aeolus451 said:

 If you're looking for illegal immigrants, do you pull over blacks to make the hispanics feel like you're not discriminating against them?
What stupidity and a waste of resources. Progressives always turn a good idea into something that's ass backwards that everyone else has to fix or work around by coming up with pragmatic solutions.

That isn't what I am saying at all. You have turned it into a straw-man argument.
I mean heck. Muslims aren't restricted to any specific "race" profile anyway.



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numberwang said:
If have no problem with Turks being patriotic, but 'jihad' did not mean pro-Turkey in a historic content.

Didn't work out for them too well when Germany convinced the Ottomans to do it in WW1.



Pemalite said:
Aeolus451 said:

My point still stands. Of course, you vet everyone but you focus that attention on certain groups because that is where the wheel is squeaky. Discrimination?

If you are vetting everyone. A criminal cannot get through ANY avenue. That is the ENTIRE point.
Your way leaves a back door open as you are only picking and choosing who to vet, seems to be a simple concept that leaves conservatives baffled.

The majority of Muslims do not even live in the Middle East. - Where are Trumps proposed immigration restrictions? Most are in the Middle East region.
If you truly wished to put a stop to islamic extremism finding it's way to your country, then you need to be a little more proactive instead of picking and choosing who to discriminate against because of some wierd political agenda.


Aeolus451 said:

How do you expect to find a criminal if you're afraid to use any of their individual traits to track them?

I am not saying to be afraid of using individual defining traits. I am saying to vet everyone.

Aeolus451 said:

 If you're looking for illegal immigrants, do you pull over blacks to make the hispanics feel like you're not discriminating against them?
What stupidity and a waste of resources. Progressives always turn a good idea into something that's ass backwards that everyone else has to fix or work around by coming up with pragmatic solutions.

That isn't what I am saying at all. You have turned it into a straw-man argument.
I mean heck. Muslims aren't restricted to any specific "race" profile anyway.

I said to screen everyone while focusing the vetting efforts/largest amount of resources on a group of people with the largest amounts of terrorists who actively target the west. Your entire arguement hinges on me having the belief that we only screen/vet muslims which I dont't. *shrugs

It's not a strawman but an example of the kind of fallancy in your line of thinking.