I wasn't concerned about how close the part PC would match the Scorpio in direct performance, only the price, without writing a novel about how GDDR5 is more expensive than DDR3 etc,etc. $600 would get you more in the ballpark, so how much cheaper XB could do it for, with direct pricing/purchasing and somewhat mass production is the real question. How much their willing to subsidize would be the next.

I'm not concerned about price either. I own a heap of consoles and a heap of PC's. I'll get Scorpio on release regardless of price.

It's interesting how this same debate always pops up with every new console release though.

No you are wrong, the system he made has the CHEAP 4GB 480RX in it and its a gaming machine, sure cpu is more powerfull but it won't do much since the graphics card has half the memory available, a smaller memory bus, lower memory speed, less processing cores and lower amount of overall performance.

On a gaming level the pc he made will not come close to the Xbox Scorpio and will actually sit closer to the PS4 pro instead, DDR3 ram how many you put in it won't make up for the difference because its a pc the memory isn't shared and exctending memory from the VRAM to other components will slow the game down to a crawl because unlike consoles pc hardware are multiple seperate parts working togheter where the cpu and gpu are baked on one chip on all current consoles.

THere is a night and day difference between the two. if you would take a 480RX with 8GB and the best possible fan to overclock it to match the Tflops you would have a scenario where its closer, still not as good in 4K but should match the scorpio in other scenario's but he didn't do that

Yeah...no.

Here's actually my list:

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor  ($77.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI 760GMA-P34(FX) Micro ATX AM3+ Motherboard  ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory  ($49.99 @ Corsair)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($48.49 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card  ($239.00 @ Jet)
Case: Zalman T2 Plus MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($25.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA 430W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply  ($29.89 @ OutletPC)
Optical Drive: LG UH12NS40 Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer  ($42.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $560.51

RX480 stands in for RX580 (~6.2TFLOPS beefed up RX480) that will launch shortly (hence $239 instead of $219 for MSI version of RX480). CPU is still better than Scorpio's. Again, $560.

But, it seems you're missing the point. This is a mental exercise about production costs for fairly similar tech to figure out how much Scorpio might cost. My guesstimate is $449...but if MS is cocky they will go with $499.

What you made is mutch closer to the scorpio, the original discussion on the original hardware posted was just very wrong, and altough I think the scorpio will outperform the machine you made there, especially in 4K, I am also going to look at the price of the scorpio, it won't be over 500 but how close they get towards the PS4 Pro really depends on if they are willing to bleed to gain market share.

Sony has stated the PS4, Ps4 Pro and PSVR are all making a profit of the hardware, something which is really good for them since the hardware sells well either way, if Xbox wants to make a profit it will proberbly be priced at 499,- taking everything in account, their discounts but also taxes shipping and stores needing to make a profit, it will be a small profit if they have a good deal with AMD.

Either way if they are willing to bleed and price it at 399,- or 449,- and with the visual improvements the scorpio WILL deliver because of the 4k textures used on both 1080P and 4K screens it might finally indicate a small "comeback" for xbox. altough ps4 will still beat the xbox worldwide, no questions asked, they might reclaim the marketshare in the US.

It will be very interesting and I am sure we will have the answer @ E3, the main costs for Microsoft are the cooling, UHD drive and expensive memory apart from that it shouldn't be anything ground breaking in forms of cost, please also note they are adding a controller to the package, something that should be concidered in the price.

Are you suggesting that Scorpio will use all 8GB of memory just for graphics?

But you are right. Scorpio will dwarf a Radeon 480. But a Radeon 480 isn't exactly high-end. It's mid-range. Arguing which mid-range GPU is better is pretty comedic.
Vega will be a big step up from Scorpio... And yet. All of those cards fail in comparison to what nVidia is offering in the High-End.

With that, two Radeon 470's or 480's should beat Scorpio.

It really won't.
Also using Teraflops in that context is useless.

Well, obviously a double 480 or double 470 would beat the Scorpio in performance, but not nessesarily in 4k performance, you can say a lot about console hardware and obv. pc hardware is faster and anything from a 1070 and up from a nvidia perspective will be better then the scorpio but they balanced the AMD hardware out nicely.

Pairing two weaker GPU's togheter is always a "driver" and "optimalization" thing that never did well for me personally, I tried it a few times, but the bottum line is from a console perspective what Microsoft has achieved is a big step up from what the ps4 pro did, which has a graphics card weaker then the 470RX

And no it won't use the full 8GB's available for Vram, but my expectation is that in most scenario's it will use somwhere between 6 and 6.5GB Vram for the GpU and 1-2GB for the CPU for games so any PC equalivilant card to the scorpio should have the full 8GB to make sure it doesn't hit a treshhold because when Vram runs out FPS starts dropping. Now on the PS4 Pro side most 4GB cards will be enough since it only has 5.5GB available for games ánd the memory is also much slower.

Faster memory is tricky because textures load in- and out faster the amount of memory is a little "less" relevant because of effeciency in moving scenes, now again I am not saying the graphics card is "cutting edge" or anything we've never seen before but basically its a 480 teched unit with more processing cores running on a 1080's speed memory, which is something AMD simply doesn't offer on PC.

The RX480 struggles sometimes in 4k, but generally can run quite a few games in 30/4k native but the occations it cannot are possibly fixed by AMD by the customizations, you can see where the ps4 pro sturggles and many of those factors are cleaned out by the Scorpio.

Its going to be really fun to see how it does pair up with equavilant hardware from PC and see how it competes. Overall its a nice side-kick for my future pc and I am very happy with how it turned out, but this topic is mostly about price and that will be the buy- or skip factor for many games who are on edge on buying or not buying the console, but wether it turns out to be 400 or 500 buying a pc will proberbly not get you the same 4K results in games.

You sure about that? It's able to give the Geforce 1080 a run for it's money.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/7770/amd-radeon-rx-480-crossfire-beating-geforce-gtx-1080-4k/index7.html

I have been running Multiple GPU's since the late 90's. I can assure you, it's not that big of a deal these days.

And you are right, Microsoft has stepped it up rather massively over the Playstation 4 Pro.
The Playstation 4 Pro's GPU is actually slightly more potent than the RX 470.

Good. Because your last statement made it sound like as if all 8GB of memory will be reserved for graphics duty. When it won't.

But... We also need to keep in mind that the PC is different than the consoles. A GPU doesn't need to match a console in terms of memory capacity because they both have different memory hierachy's, API's and usage.
When a PC's GPU is full, where does the data reside? System memory.

AMD also has a new technology to provide aid during low-memory situations as well which will be arriving along with Vega, aka. High Bandwidth Cache.

That is because AMD doesn't have any high-end GPU hardware. Vega will change that.

The RX 480 is mid-range stuff. It's not breaking any records, ironically... The 300 series had faster hardware.

That is because it was never meant for 4k.

People need to realise that the RX 480 is NOT high-end hardware. It's mid-range. The fact that console are being compared against mid-range GPU's is a testament of where they lay in terms of power relative to the PC.

AMD however is offering Crossfire to compete with the Geforce 1080 and 4k.

Agreed. However... Before Scorpio launches AMD will launch the 500 series... AMD will essentially rebadge GPU's from the last half decade and sprinkle a couple of Vega-powered GPU's on top.

The current Polaris chips should get a clockrate increase when rebadged as 500 series parts.

nVidia might also give us Pascal refresh before a Volta release.

With that, we don't know everything about Scorpio. It's CPU and GPU architectures are still an unknown.

But if the GPU is Graphics Core Next 4 or older-based, then the console will be outdated before it launches.

That's if you are convinced we are talking of Jaguar as in 2012/13. At worse case scenario this is a Puma+ custom design without the memory controller bottleneck as on the PC.

I'd say based on the custom silicon and unified GDDR5 system memory, for what its meant to do , at the resolution its meant to do it in...it could perform like a Piledriver at 4K.

As far as the GPU goes, apples and oranges. A GTX 1060 has a tiny bus and limited bandwidth and less memory compared to Scorpio for games....and it drops frames at 4K.  Based on the GPU load we saw of Forza 6 Apex on Scorpio, theres lots of room for further optimizations.

Two completely different environments anyways. PC games make VERY Inefficient use of the hardware. That's why for the most part this gen you needed a GTX680 to replicate a PS4 (with a hamstrung 7870, 7850) GPU.  That's the reality...

What you 1070 people need to do is read this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11250/microsofts-project-scorpio-more-hardware-details-revealed

It will give you a pretty detailed tech analysis as to why it should be like a "slightly more powerful 480" than anything else...